Is HS2 really going to be an asset?

So why would you fly to Paris. Many continental rail systems are getting more and more integrated. It will take the same or less time to travel between major cities. Just include the time it takes to get to an airport, security processing and getting back into a city. Trains are much more environmentally friendly.
These are costs or savings never mentioned in the HS2 pricing.
Old movie saying - if you built it, they will come.
Applies to a lot …

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That’s what happens. City centre to city centre. Internal flights in France can’t compete.

Haven’t read though all the tread but I’d get the French to build it they’ve been doing high speed rail links for years. Un retour du médaille car les anglais ont créer le premier métropolitaine français à Paris et also some of the first ports to inter-city rail lines (that’s were some of the origins of the name for Brits came from, les Rosbifs’).

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I think one thing that seems to be missed in all of this debate is that all other countries are much bigger than the UK.
It is not a case of covering long distances, but of getting more trains onto the lines and increasing carrying capacity and setting up a sensible system of fares at the same time!

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GB is plenty big enough, it’s 1500km from one end to the other. A high speed rail link from Edinburgh or Glasgow to London would eliminate a lot of flights. Currently 5hrs if you are lucky, could be cut to 3 hrs which would beat any airport/flight… And all the business guys could have their home office on the train. Plenty French, German, Spanish examples. But it has to be reliable and not twice as expensive as a flight.

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If you look at the route of the TGV from Bordeaux to Paris it cuts through huge swathes of farmland which is very cheap to buy, already HS2 has cost £600 million in land/property purchases alone and there are currently several lawsuits ongoing regarding the ‘undervaluation’ of some of the compulsory purchases.

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Really, based on what criteria? The only asset this hs2 (if built) will have is that it lines the already full pockets of a few individuals. nothing else. Your average Joe more than likely wont be able to afford to get on it never mind ride on it. It certainly wont be cheaper than the present London to Brum fares. I agree the continental railway systems are far more advanced than the UK’s ever will be (Beecham saw to that) but like another poster replied, the countries are much bigger. If i want to go from Limoges to Zürich it will take me 9 hours on the TGV (without strikes etc), to fly it takes more or less the same. To drive 6-7 hours. The HS2 have said it will shave a wopping 20 mins of the present journey time. Is god knows how many billions really an asset. I think not.

ok - you will have to factor in the built costs of HS2, in the long run train travel is better.
Take away the subsidies for aviation fuel and prices will be on a level playing field.

I wish i got my aviation fuel subsidised, i pay between 7 and 19% VAT on each litre i draw down. And i cant offset it. All commercial inter EU flights pay VAT on their fuel bills only the out of EU flights is tax free. I pay on average 2.60€ per litre of AvGas incl VAT.

I stand corrected

Will it help Brits here in EU27 states or is it just another shiny bauble to distract people from the "B"rexit word that Boris Johnson wants redacted from the news “1984” style?

I see that HS2 will go ahead

I wonder, though, whether this is more about pumping £15billion or so per year into the economy, providing about an 0.5% boost to GDP.

It couldn’t  be that Johnson is more interested in cooking the books to make Brexit look like less of a failure, could it?

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Unless matters have changed in the last 10 years, I always got duty drawback on fuel exported to the EU… with 6 tanks on my Comanche I could fuel up to the gunnels on a short hop to Calais, fly a few NDB and ILS approaches, enjoy the famed 100€ expresso and then fly off the remaining fuel on trips in the UK duty free :grin:

There does come a time where it simply becomes just too expensive to be of a net benefit to the country. From that point it becomes a vanity project.

HS2. Smart motorways. More buses than you can shake a stick at. If quality of life was measured in miles travelled, i would understand it better.

Unfortunately things had changed, but with the exit of the UK from the EU, it will come back into force which still doesnt do any thing for me as i fly inter EU so i have to suck it up. I now use pump petrol (mogas) if available. Half the price of 100LL

HS2 is Ok as a vanity project, but they need to sort out the existing railways before introducing a new one which i fear will go the same way as the present one. 106 billion all just to save 30 mins off a train journey.

Except where there are no high speed trains, and only expensive flights, like Clermont Ferrand…

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Dead cats, lots of them, brings in the money…

In theory it is not just 30 mins off the journey to London but improving local services by getting the express trains off the tracks and on to the new fast line.

But otherwise, I agree, it probably is not going to being the supposed benefits (so, a bit like Johnson’s other projects).