As a politician, one is not at all able to speak freely. I may well think that the attack on Oct 7th was permitted, but as someone who is part of the political system, I need to keep those thoughts to myself if I am to align with a party that is still officially supporting Israel and that has had a noted anti-semitic problem in recent memory.
It’s likely to be necessary to be more involved and interested in the Labour party than I am, to be able to intelligently answer the question that headline is asking.
1 Like
Hmmm.
Had Corbyn been an effective leader this should not have been a problem - after all Starmer seems to have pretty effectively rooted out anti-Jewish sentiment from Labour.
One of Corbyn’s biggest problems is that he was not a good leader. His entire political career was predicated on not toeing the party line, voting against the whip a total of 617 times (sorry, link is £$€), which very much becomes a problem when one is leader - when the rebel wins against whom does he rebel?
He either didn’t care enough, didn’t see it because of his own anti-Israel stance or was ineffective at stopping it. None of these was good for Labour and I suspect all three were true.
2 Likes
Perhaps, I don’t know because I don’t know what was happening on Corbyn’s watch, but it seems to me that Starmer has rooted out any sympathy, support or compassion for the Palestinians’ plight. I don’t like this toe the party line or you’re out business. The official Labour position maybe that Gaza is not genocide, but if a Labour MP personally believes it is and makes it clear that it is their opinion and not the Party position they should be free to say so.
I have come t have a very low opinion of Mr Teflon Starmer.
3 Likes
I agree - of course Starmer has a Jewish wife (and, as a result, children) which puts him in a difficult position personally.
He has - unsurprisingly given the prevailing International viewpoint as well, no doubt, his personal affiliation - taken a pro-Israel stance and necessarily (given that politics has to be black and white for some reason) an anti-Palestine one.
That’s a bit different, in fact I welcome a bit of ruthlessness on the left which is all too often given to internecine squabbling, Starmer is running a much tighter ship than many previous Labour leaders (especially Corbyn). The party will be better for it - it is exactly how the Tories used to operate.
A position with which I find it hard to agree.
Mmmm, see “running a tight ship” above.
I have a complex opinion of him. I think he is wrong on many points (this included) but can see why his publicly visible position is as it is.
He is an effective leader of the Labour party - no mean feat; he might make a good PM, certainly he will be “on top of his brief” in ways that we have not seen for 14 years.
Whether “his brief” is what the country needs remains to be seen.
I think that the biggest problem a future Labour PM faces is not the economy but the Tory dominated press. No other Western country has this problem to the same extent. Even the US requires Rupert Murdoch to be a US resident, whereas most British newspaper owners are tax exiles who live outside the UK and even outside the EU.
And yet one seldom sees reference to this situation, even in The Guardian.
And of course no UK government ever feels sufficiently powerful or secure to attempt some form of redress.
4 Likes
Corbyn could have been a more effective leader but he was also the subject of a hit job by the press and New Labour factions within the party. In fact he could have been a naturally incredibly effective leader and still been rendered ineffective by circumstances.
There are so many factions and contradictions involved in the idea of anti-Jewish sentiment in Labour it is hard to start compiling links. I don’t have all day. But I think it would be more accurate to write the Starmer has been effective at rooting out anti -Israeli sentiment, given the number of Jews that have been expelled from Labour.
Then there are the funding questions and the subject of donations to Labour MPa by pro-Israeli lobbyists
1 Like
I’m afraid we’re going to have agree to differ - I thought on day 1 that Corbyn would be a disaster and wasn’t proven wrong.
Also, although the far left is prone to internecine squabbling they also tend to use it as an excuse - so hearing a comment like " he was also the subject of a hit job by the press and New Labour factions" just makes me roll my eyes I’m afraid.
Even I would have to admit that claiming a Jew was anti-Semitic while not impossible, is at least a bit odd. To do so multiple times might be questionable.
It’s happening quite a bit in Germany. A quick google yielded these two immediately. I can’t understand why German politicians can’t see the tragic irony of trying to punish those (especially jewish) people that disagree with the official German line on Isreal.
1 Like
For @billybutcher
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/killing-jeremy-corbyn
I roll my eyes when people immediately start going on about the hard left when many of these politicians are advocating mildly socialist policies that would not raise any eyebrows in the rest of Europe.
And as @John_Scully said press ownership is a real problem in the UK.
In the meantime there is a genocide going on right now and Starmer is not calling it out. You can say he is just doing what is requires to get into power but do you really think he will change and do things differently once he is? He will not be under less pressure.
Quite, no disagreement from me on that one.
Nor on that one - and it’s not just Starmer, it’s almost everyone from the UN down.
I don’t understand it, I never have.
I know the Oct 7th attack was heinous - but Israel is using it to justify a much larger crime and no one is stopping them.
4 Likes
It happens in Israel - its government is persecuting jews in their own homeland.
Also this weirdness…
Also remember the government wants to remove / control the country’s supreme court. Cue demonstrations.
6 Likes
Hello @Lui_jon and welcome to the forum.
Tell us something about yourself and your connection to France.
1 Like
Please award yourself 5 Social Credit Points.
2 Likes
In conclusion to what? You hadn’t said anything before you decided to conclude.
Мой портной богат, но я говорю по-русски, как испанская корова.
63 words to say 0, it like what I get handed in by some of my pupils whose work is done by chat gpt.
4 Likes
Hi John, 
@Lui_jon
Moy tozhe!
Hi olena, welcome to the forum.
Please tell us more about yourself and your interest in France, do you live here or are you looking to move?
1 Like
