Lime Putty (hydraulic), what brand to buy and where, plus tools are needed?

Thanks for this tip. Much appréciated. Is there a reason not to point during thé summer months?

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Simply heat. You don’t want the mixture to dry too fast. Even at Easter it can be too warm in direct sunlight.

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Mine looks like Mark’s job, Sable de Loire, no colour :slightly_smiling_face:

I read somewhere about people keeping lime for months, and remoistening it periodically.

If this is not the case, when i am ready to repoint,. I make the lime mortar,. How long will that quantity be good for? Roughly.

Thanks a lot,

Helen.

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It will be workable for much longer than any cement based product, but probably no more than an hour or two.

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It is worth hanging cloth/dustsheets and wetting them down to prevent rapid drying and cracking if it turns warmer or is windy. Cracks in lime mortar can be re worked to close them, can’t do that with cement!
As others said stick with St Astier natural and not tradifarge products…

What about scaffholding. Did you have to buy it or is it rentable. I chipped off quite a bit of cement today but i can imagine that it would be easier working from a scaffhold.

Also i think i came upon quite a thorn in my rose today. The back of my large chiminey is in this wall. I mean that i suspect the back of the chiminey is part of this wall which might explain the odd look of this particular wall. Worse is that this part of the wall seems flimsy. I guess that because its a chiminey theres literally nothing but air the other side.

The pictures above are from winter 2014. Its the same today except for the couple of mètres i cleared of cement, today. The front is pretty crap too but its lovely when the sun is shining on it.

This means that i can repoint all i want but the bit in the middle will have to be covered over (rendered) .

Anyway anyway, its all fun and adventures!!

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Saint Astier also hand out some really helpful documentation to help you choose the right products and use them correctly. We went to the Salon du Patrimoine in Paris last year and were very impressed by their range (including tadelakt and lime for paint as well as the normal limes) and their open attitude - by contrast a couple of manufacturers told me they would only speak to my architect because the products were too specialised (credit to her, my architect called that a complete load of bollocks).

Hi Helen,

I have an old house in Brittany and have been working it, or paying masons to work on it, in lime, for more than 20 years. I don’t live there yet which is why it has gone on a long time, also I bought next door. I started with plastering the main downstairs room with lime and sand, then laid a slate floor with lime. I made mixes of 2:1, 3:1, 4:1, 5:1 sand to lime in pudding bowl size quantities and splatted them about half an inch thick on a bit of old ply and let them dry a month or so. Too much lime makes a brittle mix, too little lime is too crumbly. 3:1 was about right for pointing and plastering. You can also check what your sand is like by putting a sample (mug full) in a litre water bottle, adding water, leaving to settle. That way you see how much mud is in it and proportion of fine particles to coarse. Quarries will give you a bucketfull or a sack full free. I borrowed a cement mixer then ended up buying a Belle in England and taking it over. Later I did a couple of courses with Tiez Breizh which is the Breton equiv of Maisons Paysannes… First was enduit de terre, mud plastering. So I did the first floor with garden soil and hemp.Your soil needs enough clay. It’s cheap, good insulation and easy to work. You skim with fine sand and lime at the end. Then I did Laying Quarry Tiles the Ancient Way, also with lime. More recently Tiez Breizh organised a course on lime plastering for professional masons at my house. The tutor got me to collect sand samples from all my local quarries in advance, both washed and unwashed. He settled on a mix of 3 parts washed, 3 parts unwashed 1 part lime. The clay content in unwashed sand interacts with the lime. On the last day he brought in many more samples of sand and each mason had to choose a sand, evaluate it and decide what mix to make. These were evaluated by the tutor, and I had to photograph them a month or so later after they had dried. They didn’t all succeed in getting the right ratio which is why little tests is a good idea. More here

http://www.tiez-breiz.bzh/restaurer-rehabiliter/les-fiches-techniques/les-dosages-de-chaux.

In UK most of the the lime sold dry is quicklime which is why people buy pre-slaked lime putty. In France it is hydrated. Note: there is hydrated lime and hydraulic lime. You don’t want hydraulic, but semi- hydraulic is OKish. Explanation here:

http://nmnikhilmishra.blogspot.co.uk/p/wanna-know-difference-between-hydrated.html.

With chaux aerienne, which sets with carbon dioxide, you can use it the day after you have mixed it, and also smooth any cracks or lumps the next day.
There is a lot to say about lime…
You need little trowels for pointing, larger for plastering, and a hawk (a bucket will do), rubber gloves, goggles, water sprayer. (Wall needs to be thoroughly wetted out). I can’t help with extensive cement removal, but I guess cold chisel and lump hammer and patience. Professionals use those enormous percussion drills,but they are too heavy for me. Contact me if you need more/photos. Strength to your elbow. Vivien

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Thanks for this great info Vivien. Its a really interesting subject. Before last August i hadnt been to that house for two Years. My partner died in 2010 so i really lost interest big Time. Actually i am doing it up with a view to selling it for once and for all. Ironically all this stuff is turning it into a place of interest for me. I am enjoying putting thé garden back together and this wall stuff is great fun. However i will get shot of this house as soon as possible,. Even if in this case that might bé a longish périod, considering the product here. The Girls and i have moved on and at heart we are city people. At the moment i Drive up and down every day from our appart on Lyon,. No matter how cute nature is,. I really couldnt be bothered staying up there in the wilderness,. Its too freaky. Sheep, cows, Deers be damned,. We like the dirty city with its safer dangers!!!

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If you are selling it I would just get in a local French builder, or building company, with a good reputation and let him get on with it. My house was built in the 16th century and hadn’t been lived in for 150 years - they used it for storing potatoes and making cider. I worked in museum conservation so it has been one big conservation project for me. Interesting your conclusions about where you want to live. When we were looking the notaires and estate agents assumed that we would want to be in the middle of nowhere, but we didn’t want to get in the car for a loaf of bread, and bought in a small village which still manages to support a few shops, and organises various village events. About 6 miles from a reasonable size town.

I am retired now and want to live in France, but can’t sell my house in the UK.

Good luck

Vivien

To be fair Vivien, I get the impression Helen is pointing a stone wall and not plastering. NHL is fine for that and not as expensive as your US (imported St. astier) article makes out. Hydrated is more for plastering work as the set is slower allowing for a working time to suit getting it nice and flat.

Hi John

I wasn’t sure whether she was pointing or rendering, since she thought the cement was making the house damp. There is a lot we don’t know, e.g. type of stone, location. She has written to me and is planning to sell the house, so I have suggested maybe she should just get a local builder to do whatever he usually does in that region. I didn’t actually mention St Astier. I usually get whatever my local Point P or other builder’s yard has in stock.

This is Tiez Breizh’s recipe for pointing

Joints

1 volume de chaux pour 4 volumes d’un mélange :

  • 1/3 de terre argileuse du pays,
  • 2/3 de sable lavé.

Le volume de chaux peut lui-même être constitué de :
dans le cas de façades exposées :

  • 2/3 de chaux aérienne,
  • 1/3 de chaux hydraulique naturelle;
    dans le cas de façades peu exposées, de chaux aérienne seule.

I see you aren’t that far away from Brittany. I came down your way (Cholet) to visit quarry tile manufacturers a few years ago. It was fascinating. They delivered to Brittany and it was much cheaper than from the bricolage shops

​.

Best wishes

Vivien

Hi Vivien,

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me, and thank you very much for this precious information.

I think i’ve got all i need in terms of info and now have to get down to work. I tried out my new sds drill yesterday and it works like a charm. So my plan is to get the offending cement stuff out ASAP, let the walls dry.
And then attentively study all the amazing information that you guys have so generously provided and formulate a plan to get cracking. If a need a point clarifying i will get back to you!!

And if it all goes to pot, or if i begin to lose my wits with this job i will call in a trusty builder i know and hand the baby over to him.

Concerning the other post, about why we bought a place that was really isolated (well we actually have one really nice neighbour beside us, Mme Schneider,), there’s a really long story behind it that would bore you to death and have me writing a post about a mile long. Suffice to say it was a good idea at the time. It worked beautifully for us, and now it no longer suits.

Anyway anyway, i am going to terminate this thread here for a while, because i now consider myself well and truly informed. Time for action, then study, then action again.

Thanks a million for all your help!!!
Best Regards,
Helen!!

Hi Helen I used to be a landscape gardener, if you are going to use a lime based mortar and haven’t used it before please be advised, if you are using it be sure to protect your eyes with goggles and wear a mask :mask: especially if using a cement mixer. As when it tumbled it can through out a cloud of lime dust. Lime is extremely caustic and if inhaled can cause serious caustic burns to the lining of the throat and lungs. I speak as someone who had a work colleague who caused permanent damage to his lungs after breathing in a face full of lime dust. Not wishing to scare anyone just raise awareness of the dangers of using lime.

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Quite right and gloves!

this house is practically sold, awaiting final signature.

But thanks very much for this information, i kind of knew it anyway from watching youtube videos, but you can’t be too careful. And its good to get good advice!!!

Hydrated (quick) lime is the one that causes chemical burns, and can be used to make lime putty. Hydraulic lime which is normally used in france mixed with sand for pointing, rendering etc is less caustic. Of course, precautions still need to be taken to reduce exposure.

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Good to know that thanks Mark