Oh, forgot to put, from personal experience i’ve Found that those people who spout
“I’m not rcacist/homophobic/sexist/ageist/whatever, BUT”
are usually the ones who carry the most hate for any group with different beliefs or ways of living to them.
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Z[quote=“Norman_Clark, post:2, topic:26391, full:true”]
Having a strange mind, I wonder how having a 'Heterosexual Day would be regarded?
Surely the point is that as being heterosexual has consistently been regarded as the only acceptable behaviour for so many centuries we live in a world which caters first and foremost for heterosexuals. Only when we cater equally for all humans regardless of sexuality, race and disability will events such as London pride no longer be needed just as a heterosexual day is not needed. Perhaps in 40 years when a whole generation of people who were brought up with tv that showed gay people as camp and pansies, made sitcoms about racist behaviour and showed women being groped on a daily basis, when that generation has died then hopefully my children and grandchildren will not be talking about Pride marches and me too movements except as historical facts.
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Has anyone met a camp lesbian?
You’ve started a hare running, there @Corona! Are you offering a prize for the first one snared? 
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This is a refugee camp on Lesbos. Am I in line for a prize?
@Corona - I think you are treading a pretty tight line with that question - perhaps inferring that lesbians are butch? I am not convinced you want to pursue this line.
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Hi Folks.
You know me - I get on with everybody… and I rather wonder 
if we should move away from the current twist of the Thread, before it snaps 
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Each to his own sense of humour, just bear in mind that there are very few subjects as personal as sexuality and that it is very easy to give offence or hurt, particularly to young people with doubts about themselves on this subject who may be very vulnerable to being ostricised or ridiculed for things going on under their trouser buttons, as Norman puts it, over which like him they have no control.
One interesting fact I once read about lesbianism (and I regret not noting where I read it) was that unlike male homosexuality, it was never actually outlawed in the 19th century, simply because Queen Victoria refused to believe that it actually existed!
And it now seems incredible that Alan Turing was only given a posthumous official pardon just 5 years ago.
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I think the flippancy of some comments just shows how far we have to go where a person’s sexuality is simply not a big issue.
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Absolutely! What difference should it have made to someone responsible for such a tremendous achievement as saving Europe.
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I think I may have already mentioned some years ago… how wonderful it was when France accepted the Law: Marriage for All.
OK I am not personally affected by this Law - but I have experienced at first hand the joy it brought to some same-sex couples.
Half a century ago, OH and I fell in love at first sight. An old cliché - but for us it has stood the test of time. I still remember the feeling of joy when he proposed; how my father reacted when we spoke with him; and of that wonderful day when both families celebrated our joy. We did not need a Law !!
Fast forward to 2013. France has made it possible for same-sex couples to marry. One couple, who had been together for 38 years (!) - suddenly they could marry 
One, querulously asked me - what do you think, Stella?? - Go for it. - I replied. The first Marriage for All was May 2013 in France. A little later, our commune held another. We kept it low key, as the first one had been turned into a bit of a circus by the Press etc.
That’s another thing that irritates me. We kept their marriage quiet/low-key to protect them. (but they still made a splash )
Me, my marriage, I blasted it to the rooftops. I didn’t have to worry about adverse criticism or adverse behaviour.
The world has a long way to go before folk can be truly equal. However, we have made a start.
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If you are referring to me Tim, it’s just asking a question, no flippancy meant. Not being able to ask a question is an infringement of my being heterosexual? Can’t have a discussion?
Personally I have no issues with gay people. I find campness a little tiring after a while that’s all. Maybe because of that lesbians are easier company? That’s why I asked.
John… you are not the only one who dislikes/finds tiring … “campness”. There is absolutely no need for it, from my experiences with friends of all persuasions. 
I’m possibly one of the few locally, who can tell someone to “stop being so daft” without being accused of sexism or “having a go”. I stand no nonsense.
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You may be right Stella, but just a little bit for the record. I live as some know deep in the heart of traditional France and all that entails. The population is largely ‘older’ (say +60) and with a fair sprinkling of Hard Right Voters - about 25% at the last EU Election.
Two years ago, our next-door French neighbours organised the Wedding of their homosexual son and his Spanish partner and which was held at the local Golf Club.
I didn’t count but there must have been close to 100 people attending the ceremony and about 40 the Reception Dinner. I and my wife and her sister were in the first category as were a large number of local villagers, the latter logically were family and closer friends.
There was not the slightest unease, nor adverse comment from a single soul in the village that I heard. Far from it. It was a happy occasion for all concerned.
Now if there is this level of acceptance at such a conservative and traditional level, and largely pronounced Catholics is homosexuality REALLY such a big issue for people as it is drummed up to be?
Or is there possibly a ‘victim card’ being played here? Naturally as a heterosexual male I wuldn’t really know, but also I have to say that the whole issue of homosexuality rarely if ever comes into my mind, until raised by things such as Gay Pride. As I have mentioned before, it is none of my business, and trying to somehow make it my business seems counterproductive to me.
I believe all the laws are in place to protect homosexuals? The Right to Marry? Have Joint Property and Inheritance Rights etc;? So just what is this all about? Again in my view changing residual attitudes is through a process of normality not exceptionality.
The latter is bound to annoy those who might be undecided, or aggressively disposed to homosexuals. Again parts of it irritate me, so maybe I am not as tolerant as I thought I was.
Does Gay Pride really do anything to change people’s views or attitudes? I have my doubts.
I am not involved with Gay Pride - I think they are trying to show everyone just how many people are touched by this, affected by a situation beyond their control - they are asking for acceptance, but IMO perhaps not going about it in the right way, who knows (I certainly do not have the magic answer).
I am involved with people of all persuasions - we get on with living our lives as suits us best - none of us seek the limelight.
However, I am aware of some folk (local and further afield) who feel very differently toward anyone who is not of their “persuasion”. OK, sober one can keep the peace - all is well. However, get the drinks flowing and the gloves come off. Believe me, it is not nice.
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Without going too deeply into this historically until Victorian times, homosexuality was totally acceptable and normal - take the Spartans as just one example, and Greek and Roman hstory is replete with homosexual behaviour as completely normal.
With regard to TV I rather thought that also presented homosexuality and ‘campness’ in a very amiable and friendly light. Part of life’s rich pattern as it were? Again maybe I was wrong, but I never noted anything other than good humour involved.
So, you’ld like to go back into the historical times! Gay sex is not specifically my subject of interest, but law / custom & culture is.
I’ll have to look up the times & dates, but in old Roman times buggery was more than accepted & even applied into law, here’s an example, (if you can prove / find that your wife has had or having an un-authorized sexual relationship/s with out consent of her husband, with another man) the court will probably give the sentence of… The guilty man, will be shamed & buggered in a public ceremony by the victim / husband. (Some preferred to do it themselves & others preferred to use a sort of wooden dilo).
Queen Victoria and her generation certainly have a lot to answer for.
The problem with the tv depiction of homosexuality is that gay men are no more inclined to be camp than anyone else. It must be very trying for any gay person to be so stereotyped eg camp man, butch woman or the very intrusive questions of which is the male/female in the relationship.
It’s easy for us to say it’s good humoured because it’s not affecting our daily lives.
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No, in Christian countries you would be burnt for sodomy (which had a far wider definition than it does now).
Man to man attachment of a purely spiritual nature was deemed perfect and desirable though because women were inferior beings there just for procreation or lightweight entertainment.
As with so many things the main rule was don’t get caught but that doesn’t mean it was considered good, or really tolerated
Quite civilised then, compared to some of the torts