Hi Teresa, don’t hesitate to ask if you need any advise.
I have a question about cotisations for ‘gîte’ activity which is my husband’s only income. Effectively, it is a part of our house that we gave a seperate entrance and let out short term via Airbnb and Booking.com.
Sam is an AE and we have been paying the higher rate of cotisations since summer 2014 under the impression that the activity came under ‘provision of services’ rather than ‘Sales’.
I see here that it is not the case - are there any exceptions (i.e. the exact activity declared upon creation of the AE - I have to look it up but we may have put it as ‘chambres meublés’?)
Dare I ask if it would be worth trying to claim back the overpaid cotisations? Will the authorities just accept it if we start paying the lower rate next quarter, after 2.5 years paying the higher rate?
Thanks in advance for any advice!
If you think you are registered in the wrong category I think you will have to start by applying to change your registration. I don’t think you can just suddenly decide to start paying cotisations at the wrong rate for the category you’re registered in.
PS According to http://www.auto-entrepreneur.fr/actualite/airbnb-gites-locations-chambres-dhotes-en-auto-entrepreneur-comment-ca-marche/ airbnb is in the service category and according to http://www.lautoentrepreneur.fr/images/9_guide_auto_entrepreneur.pdf chambre d’hôtes are in the commercial category so take your pick (I know which I’d pick!)
I am somewhat back and wanted to share something with you all.
“How much will I pay in social charges as AE?”
“How much will I pay in tax as ME”
These strike me as (very) frequently asked questions. After drawing on much goodwill here in the forum (and learning lots, thanks!) … and then failing to find any online tool to give me at least rough answers to the above questions, I have drafted what I hope will be an estimator tool we can all share and use.
Rather than type out a thesis, I’ve two links for those of you who would like to check out provide some guidance on this unofficial “Guerilla AE / ME Social Charges & Tax Estimator”
- WATCH this screen cast FIRST please: https://goo.gl/wXRMKg
- USE the Guerilla AE / ME Social Charges & Tax Estimator
Open to all input, guidance, and corrections.
Nice one châpeau.
You did invite comment, so to be picky:
You might want to expand the title or add a line to make it clear which category of AE the calculation is for ? ie I presume ‘profession libéral’ (with RSI?).
Also I think the figures shown are the 2016 rates ? They tend to be adjusted every year, in fact they were reduced slightly (yes you did read that right !!) for 2017, new figures here Auto Entrepreneur 2017 : Quels changements depuis le 1er janvier ?
And now to be really anal, sorry ! but how about labelling them Chiffre d’affaires (turnover) brut / Chiffre d’affaires net instead of Revenu brut and Revenu net ? Reason being, that on your avis d’imposition after the annual tax exercise the tax office will calculate your ‘revenu net imposable’, ie taxable income, which as far as they are concerned is 66% of your chiffre d’affaires so is a totally different figure from the ‘revenu net’ here. If for any reason you are filling in forms relating to your income (eg applying for a tenancy, a loan, a home improvement grant etc) you are asked your ‘revenu net imposable’ so this is a significant figure. Being a bear of very little brain I think it might confuse me to have two different figures in my head, both labelled Revenu net but calculated entirely differently. If that makes sense.
(Although thinking about it I’m not sure chiffre d’affaires net is very a meaningful term, you can probably think of something better.)
Very useful and will make things a lot clearer for people.
Thanks Anna! Hah, all good … I appreciate anyone being picky here at this endeavour is all about the details. What you pointed out makes sense.
Based on your feedback (and a gut feeling of mine) I think what I’ll do here is two things:
Start a new Guerilla AE / ME Social Charges & Tax Estimator Topic for the “development” of this tool (so as not to hijack this discussion)
Restructure the spreadsheet so that it more intuitively accommodates all the AE/ME types
This really interests me Fabien!
Could you tell me the law that permits this please? There is always a reference to any decision made. I need it in what I’m dealing with at the moment. Thanks so much.
I have not been on SFN for some time so sorry for not getting back to you earlier… I’m now in Brittany (school holidays nearly over and I will have more time on my hands)
Hi Jan, not sure hat you are referring to? You mentioned being interested in something I said but I cannot trace back the sentence I could have said that you mention can you clarify please?
(A while back I went to the tax office for information on how to declare small amounts of earnings periodically/seasonally. We are going back a few years. He found a document and then… Cut off the top and the bottom with. A large pair of scissors and told me that he was not allowed to say where it came from. It was mons Caré in Dinan… He is no longer there…did he get the sack ).
This is what you wrote : “If you don’t intend to get the VAT back nor edit any invoice then you can just sell the stuff you want without any business to incorporate as long as you declare that on your national taxes and if your turnover don’t exceed a certain amount (I think it’s around 4,000€ per annum). Above 4,000€ you have to be incorporated.”
I would like to know what is possible today 2017.
Mille thanks for any info… My pension is really tiny.
Did we ever clarify what these mysterious flat rate figures are that you (mistakenly) imagine you would have to pay as a micro entreprise? [quote=“Jan_Remy, post:27, topic:14711”]
46€ X 4 = 184€ + 120€ or 140€ each year = 304€ 324€ without counting the “taxe professionale”
- not being able to take off any expenses.
Auto entrepreneur, now micro entrepreneur, was introduced specifically to enable people to declare small amounts of earnings periodically/seasonally. There are certain obligations, but the principle is that what you pay in charges is always directly proportional to turnover. If you have zero turnover during any given quarter, you make a nil declaration and there are no charges to pay for that quarter.
However it does depend on the nature of your activity because a few specific activities are excluded from the micro entreprise scheme.
If you are only selling things once and a while and they can be considered as personal belonging then if the overall revenue doesn’t exceed 5000€ you are good to go without having to incorporate a business. Otherwise you have to be incorporated: https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/files/media/1_metier/1_particulier/EV/1_declarer/141_autres_revenus/eco-collabo-fiscal-vente-biens.pdf
Hi Fabien, Thank you for your reply. A medical family issue is tKing up a lot of time at the moment. So creating an enterprise is on hold. With Macron now In place, it will be interesting to see what he does with the RSI.
No problem, I completely understand and hope that medical issue will be solved quickly. As for Macron let’s wait and see indeed…
Thanks Fabien for understanding, it’s a difficult time.
And yes Macron is “une histoire à suivre”…
Hello everyone! Great discussion and warm support from several people.
I was wondering if you could help me find my way on the French taxation system.
I have moved to Paris on August 30th this year and just got an offer to work from home by a company located in Sweden, starting on Jan 2018.
I am married with 2 children and my wife has no income.
The work is basically to provide technical sales services as a consultant.
The offer in the table is EUR 77000 per year and so far my plan is to register myself as auto entrepreneur (I know is the old name).
Would that be the best cost-effective way to do it?
Can I also rely on the 50% allowance when calculating my taxes?
I also heard something about a tax reduction for new business in the first 5 or 8 years. Is that right?
(just seen how old this post is lol) (I really should look closer lol)
all depends on what business your doing but for all Immigrants here it is the easiest way into the system unless you come here with a job from a big company.
when you look to register they will tell you what your cap is but doubt anyone would break cap in first year of business for 99% of business ventures.
There are also grants available and tax breaks for certain types of business. first year 5% tax then 11% and then 18% for first 3 years, depending what you earn.
often people are tempted to cook the books but if you sure caught they will go through everything with a micro nit comb so better to say legit (im sure you would anyhow)
There are quite a few places that hlp with setting up ME as AE no longer exists as of 2016
if your working for another company you might not get tax breaks. check it all out with local offices. I take it your being paid untaxed money already as if your contracted by them im not sure you can become a ME.
Might well be worng but best ask someone like @fabien
Hi, unfortunately Micro Entreprise won’t cut it because even with the new limits the maximum turnover is 66.400e. For that amount you’ll have to go for an Entreprise individuelle and you’ll have to charge the VAT (but they’ll be able to claim it back). If they have a VAT number you can send them invoices VAT free directly but they should declare it on their side.
You’ll still have to pay social taxes on your revenues + national taxes. Social taxes are about 40% and national taxes in your case will probably be 14% or perhaps even nothing.
If a company is offering you a salary for full time work, then they are employing you.
Employment is being offered work by a company at a salary set by them, accepting it, and then working for that company.
Self employment is forumulating a business plan, setting up a business to provide a service or product, and finding clients, by advertising, by promoting yourself, by bidding for work. You set your own fees/prices which clients accept or not, and you send out invoices/issue receipts on delivery.
In France, trying to pass yourself off as self employed when in fact you’re working for an employer, is classed as salariat déguisé and is treated as fraud. It may be different in Sweden but if you’re living and working in France, you’re subject to French rules. And if the only money coming into your bank is a regular payment from one “client”, it won’t be difficult for URSSAF to pick up on if they look.
If this company wants to employ you to work from home in France, they need to give you an employment contract and pay full social security contributions for you. Alternatively, set up a different business regime where the business and you are separate entities, and you are employed by your company.
https://www.federation-auto-entrepreneur.fr/actualites/autoentrepreneur-et-lien-subordination-faux-independant-et-salariat-deguise gives good clarification on salariat déguisé. There are a lot of urban myths about what it is, eg “if you have one client it’s salariat déguisé, if you have 2 clients it’s ok” but these are rubbish. It basically hinges on the relationship between contractor/employee and client/business - who decides what you do, who is responsible for the ultimate outcomes in business terms. In practice it’s not difficult to distinguish between someone who is running their own business with all that that entails - fluctuations in income, strategic planning to achieve sustainability and maximise profitability, budgeting for investment and overheads (which is why you have an allowance built into micro-entrepreneur) - and someone who is working for their employer’s business while the employer takes all the business decisions.