Not sure you're absolutely correct Mandy. It's my understanding that if you remain UK resident and are ordinarily UK domiciled and you continue to pay tax in the UK that is fine as long as your property in France is a residence secondaire and you only have to prove to the French tax authorities that you pay tax elsewhere and can prove it.
Unfortunately, it's not as simple as choosing where you are resident for tax purposes. If you are physically in France for more than 183 days in any tax year then you are automatically deemed resident for tax purposes and will be subject to French tax (and the dreaded social charges) on your worldwide income. You can, of course, maintain a business in the UK but you will be taxed in France, with double tax relief for any UK tax that you have paid. I suggest that you get some advice from a tax expert before you do anything. I can recommend someone if you wish as I was a tax accountant in the UK in my previous life. Best of luck.
Hi Philip,
I know that we live in a different area from where you intend to be, but we know an English lady who has a holiday home and buys when she is here in Burgundy.
She has been doing this for over twenty years and says that there are no bargains left!
The only advice I can give after 25 years of living in France is to keep a property in UK, however small, as you keep your options open. You never know if you will want to return at some stage and with rising property prices in UK (unlike over here) it pays to keep on the property ladder. I have seen, all too often, people who move to France and sell up in UK only to decide years later that they would like to return but can no longer afford to buy anything. I appreciate that not everyone is in the fortunate position to be able to do this.
Well from the replies I think its going to be easier to run the business in the UK and stay employed here. I will also take my OH on as an employee of the company when she retires. The only restraints I can see at the moment is that we cannot sell second hand goods in France at a vide grenier or market unless registered as an AE. The only problem will then be if we sell the house in England as then I assume we become full time residents for of our house in France.....
Hi Andrew thanks for the reply - I think my business is the lower end of the antiques business than your Dads. I never restore anything just pick it up, put it in the van, put it out at a fair and hopefully make profit. I intend to do most of the restoration myself, I restored a house in the Charente 20 years ago and my brother did the same with two in The centre region a few years ago. So Im not a total novice to living there but am when it comes to running a business there.
speak to Brian Langston in Lodève - he's recently set up as a brocanteur and from memory is early retirement ;-)
Suzanne has already outlined the taxbusiness situation. Brain's talked about the stiff competition. What about geographical constraints - the Limousin can be extremely remote - great for piece and quiet and cheap houses but not good for business and social life. Keep an eye on renovation costs compared to the same thing already renovated - it often doesn't pay to renovate unless you do everything yourself! My Dad spent years buying antiques in France and restoring and selling them in the UK (now my brother's running the business and changed the name: Hearne's of Beaconsfield, formely Period Furniture Showrooms when it was my Grandfather and father) My brother no longer does the France-UK thing as he said it never really made any money but was just and axcuse for my Dad to go off on a jolly once a month! Your OH may have problems with healthcare unless she works - early retirement isn't recognised in France but others here will be able to give more advice on that (Brain English I think). BUT if you want it to work and have the energy (and language skills) it will, bonne chance !
I do both lots of smalls and a few big there can actually be more profit in a small item than in a wardrobe. But remember you have to allow a days travelling, then a day to queue to get onto your pitch and set up at the fair then two days trading and a day to take down and start travelling back.if you are going to think about doing it I would go to a few antique fairs in the uk and see what sells first. Also its along way from the Gers to Calais, Its a full day from the top of Haut Limousin.
not if you know where to buy and how to travel cheap. I do it at present - I go over to France every few weeks and come back with what I need and make a good living at it so its hardly a past-time.
I personally know of at least four couples that live in France at the moment and sell in the UK but I'm not sure they are legal.......
Hi Tony buy in France to sell in UK. but in the future we could possibly bring things back from the UK to sell in France
Hi Suzanne & Brian thanks for the replies very useful information etc. One thing I perhaps didn't make clear that by running the business after we move fulltime to france will mean we will still attend Antique Fairs in the UK most probably once a month for at least a week at a time.
We know some Dutch people with a small antique business. They are folding soon because the competition is stiff. The markets, Sunday brocantes and vide greniers are too much for them to compete with and they say it is getting more competitive. They have been doing it for over twenty years. Unfortunately I can't recommend their business as a proposition for you since they already have permission to convert it to a house and are staying there. Anyway, at a guess I would say that you really do need to serious homework before choosing somewhere.
As for the rest, Suzanne has said it all.
Philip - just found this - http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/professionnels-entreprises/F23207.xhtml
regarding setting up as a Brocante in France - you can I believe do it under the Auto-Entrepreneur scheme. Have a look at the AE group on SFN for more info on this.
Happy reading x
Hi Phillip,
Welcome to SFN - please do add a photo to your profile when you get chance, any problems ask one of the admin team for help.
Regarding your tax situation - you would be well advised to contact an English speaking French accountant before making the move to France and to clarify the best position for your situation. France has a worldwide taxation policy so rental income in the UK would be classed as income in France and would be taxed if you were deemed French resident. Also your UK home could then become classed as a second home and subject to capital gains taxes if you were later to sell it.
If you live in France permanently, trade from France, have healthcare in France and have most of your economic interests here then you are French resident. From the UK perspective they may refuse to accept you as non-UK resident for tax purposes and wish to tax your income on your rental property as UK rental income. It's very hard to leave the UK. Whilst the double taxation treaty exists - social charges and NI are different between the countries so it really is best to get individual advice on your circumstances before you move.
Also bear in mind if you have any savings, ISAs, Life Insurance contracts etc these are treated differently in France and you may lose the tax benefit of these products.
Also worth knowing that all UK or overseas bank accounts must also be declared to the French tax authority by French Residents or there is a 1500 euro (I recall) fine per account not declared.
Bear in mind for healthcare that if you are not at retirement age yet then I believe you will need to register and work in France to qualify for healthcare - which is not free. Most people pay a top up policy known as a mutuelle to cover the rough 20% of healthcare fees not covered by the state. I pay 120 euro for my family a month.
That said, not wishing to scare you off coming to France of course...but just suggesting you do your research and speak to an accountant first. We took advice before we came and sold our UK home before we moved (there are other reasons not to sell..i.e. if it doesn't work out then you can easily move back to the UK).
Also as we ran a UK company we knew that the UK tax man would not let us simply go ex-pat so we ended up paying for a UK Accountant, doing UK Tax Returns, a French Accountant and French Tax Returns. But I could sleep at night without worrying about the tax man...now it's just the renovation project that keeps me awake!