Neighbour Disputing Property Boundary– Please help?

Thank you for your response @RicePudding. After reading through your comment, I feel like I have a good idea of what to expect when I attend the meeting. I really appreciate your help!

Thank you, @anon27586881. I wasn’t sure whether the “vente” was referring to the sale of land. What you have said makes more sense though.

Seems you share a border with the neighbour and the Geometre wants to confirm that you are both happy with where that border actually is.

It is quite normal for a G to be asked to confirm the exact borders of a property (be it built on or not) before a Sale. That way the Buyers know exactly what they are getting.

Give copies of whatever documents you have, to your family member who speaks good French and let him/her join in the discussion.

Presumably, there was no conflict with neighbours by the precious Owners of your Property ???

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Thank your for clarifying everything, @Stella. I’m not aware of any conflict between the previous owner and the neighbours. The property was empty for some time. As the owner was in a care home and under her son’s guardianship. I must admit, I wasn’t aware the boundaries of my property weren’t “official”. I assumed that the Cadastre provided all that information. But after doing some research online, I see that’s not the case after all.

That aligns with our experience Alex. Around seven years ago one of our neighbours was a little cavalier with our border, for example cutting down our trees without mentioning it, moving the odd fence etc. We decided he was a bit of a tetchy guy so rather than start a debate with him we played it by the book. We employed (and paid) for a geometre to organise a meeting, do the bornage and get us all to agree. There was no contention, we now know the cadastre is correct and we’ve had no problems since.

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When you bought the place Jackie did the Notaire specifically point out to you your land on the cadastre?

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don’t assume yours are not official… the G is the man who should be able to sort things out… and things may, indeed, be just as they are now…

If you have documents going back to 1959… that should give him something to get his teeth into.

You could also ask for a representative from the Mairie to be in attendance…

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@John_Scully The Notaire pointed to my plot number and had both the previous owner and I sign our names in the plot. It’s not a large piece of land. It’s what I would refer to as a regular sized garden.

@Stella I will try and contact the Mairie, as you’ve suggested. My property predates my neighbour’s property. I have a recent copy of the Cadastre and two documents (1959 & 1981) that both refer to the measurements of the plot. Are there any other type of documents I will need to pull out from my stack of paperwork? Would it be best to make copies of my paperwork to hand over to the Géomètre on the day?

I think the Cadastre is the definitive record in France Stella. Whereas it’s the deeds in the UK, isn’t it? Which is why we keep them safe in the Bank vault. Loosing you “deeds” here is no big deal if the Cadastre is correct. There’s a move to that approach in Ireland too I know, which has been driving a big multiyear scanning project.
I think the Notaire has the responsibility at sale/purchase time to verify that the Cadastre is correct and make sure both buying and selling parties are in agreement and then do the deal.
I remember when we bought he pointed out a strip of land that we didn’t even know was included (a handy bit because it gives access from another main road), looked me in the eye and said “vous êtes bien chez vous”.

Indded being very polite - “je vous prie de bien vouloir assister” - “I would be pleased if you could attend”, “a la réunion contradictoire de bornage qui se tiendra sur les lieux” - “to the open, amicable boundary meeting which will take place…” (not totally sure where to translate aimable but it is not normally a threatening word).

Jackie - did you get the whole thing translated or just see the translation of convocation and panic a bit?

Anyway, as others have said, this just looks to be fairly routine and friendly.

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I’m sure he’ll have all the data but there is no harm in having copies available for him/her. If I was in your shoes and I was happy with what The Cadastre says then I don’t think I’d be too concerned. But that’s only me :slight_smile:

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I was in the Notaire’s office on Monday (for friends)… he simply showed the Plan to the Buyers - clearly identified the parcel numbers - and asked the Sellers if the property was fenced (yes) and were any disputes over boundaries… no.

The Buyers were given a paper which identifies which parcels of land they are buying, with its square meter-age/hectares. Nothing actually says … so many feet from that rock or north by north west from that Monument (for example).
They were given a copy of the Cadastrale as well.

However, when we employed a Geo for a Sale needing division of land… .he gave us (and the Buyers) a plan which does give the angles/distances etc from various landmarks/walls and we can all identify exactly where our property starts and finishes.

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I guess the sellers declaring that no boundary issues puts them on the hook, but does it get the Notaire off it I wonder. If a dispute arises twenty years after the sale who’s liable if the parcel was wrong? I think in england one could sue the solicitor and if they were gone the law Society.
When we did our bornage everything lined up with the Cadastre but, if I remember correctly, it was then updated with the GPS coordinates. That’s handy because you could check it yourself regularly if a touch of paranoia set in :flushed:

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In this context you would probably translate aimable as “jointly agreed” or something like that.

It’s like in your “constat aimable d’accident” which is the standard form you fill in after a road accident. The idea is that you both give your account of the facts, it’s not a confrontational situation.

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@anon88169868 We did translate the letter. We knew that it wasn’t a threatening letter. But we couldn’t understand why there was an issue with the boundary. The word “convocation” made us both come to the conclusion that it was an official summons and that something was wrong. Unfortunately neither of us have any prior experience with this sort of thing and did get ourselves into a panic. You live and you learn!

Ah, that sort of makes sense.

Official notification of almost anything, especially in a language that you don’t speak does tend to have that result :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

It is interesting that the Jackie’s property predates the New Sellers’ property.

However, I see no cause for alarm. Someone has asked for a Geo to properly check that the fences are where they are supposed to be… and this is quite normal before a Sale. In fact, it might be that a prospective Buyer has asked for just such clarification. It is not at all unusual.

Jackie’s Tax Foncière bill will also give the Plot Numbers for which she “pays ownership”.

I don’t think there is an onus on the Notaire… he asked the question in general conversation with so many other bits and bobs.

If someone has a doubt about boundaries… generally the first port of call is the Mairie. I know that Adjoints do talk things through with neighbours if there is any dispute and only as a last resort (if something really is awry) does a Geo get involved. Usually it is the memories of older folk and ancient fencing which is sufficient.

I appreciate that modern GPS can be a boon and perhaps we shall all benefit from it eventually… until then it is down to discussion/measurement and friendly agreement when one is in the middle of nowhere… :upside_down_face:

The cost of a Geo is not cheap, so at point of Sale it makes sense… as it is deductible from any Capital Gains and can be absorbed painlessly with all that money floating around…

Yes, I think it cost us around 1K for one long side (plus a skinny though long strip) of a 5.5K sq mt parcel.

@Stella Sorry to bother you again, Stella. The letter mentions that I can have someone represent me in my absence. Do you know whether I have to inform the Geo that I won’t be able to attend and someone will be attending in my stead, or would it be okay for my family member to just “be there”? If the boundary agreement comes through the post at a later date for me to sign, is there really any point of me being there? After all I won’t be able to do much other than point at a fence and produce some documents.

It doesn’t ask you to name anyone… I reckon it will be alright for your family member (who speaks French) to be there, armed with your paperwork which outlines what you own.

This should be a friendly chit-chat to ascertain what everyone thinks. Just ask your Family Member not to sign anything, no matter what.

Once the chit-chat is over, presumably everyone will know where they stand and I reckon if anything of yours need changing the Geo will write to you …

You are entitled to whatever the Cadastrale and your Purchase Doc says you own. It might be that a fence has wandered… it might be that there is no query whatsoever…

At this stage it is simply an exercise (expensive) to highlight/set in stone where the boundaries are supposed to be.

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