I was aware that there was a register of ownership which meant that deeds were not as important in France as in Ireland or the UK.
I assumed this was the Cadastre but the Cadastre is backed up by the service de la publicité foncière. When the Notaire conveys a property a copy of the deed is sent (now days electronically) to the service de la publicité foncière (conservation des hypothèques as was).
Thus I have no need of a copy of my deeds when the time comes to sell (that’ll probably be someone else’s problem anyway)
It may not be a boundary-dispute, yes. But, to assure that it does not become one, you would be well-advised to obtain your own surveyor who can verify the boundary between the two properties according to what was contractually established. That formal property-demarcation you must find and have - and if you do not have it then your city-hall may have one.
The cadastral plan is an administrative document which sets out land boundaries and ownership. However it is not the deeds of a property! You can’t go to a notaire and sell a parcel of land on the basis that your name is on the cadastral plan. You need to show the actual deeds that you get given physically on purchase (or as John says which have been lodged electronically).
When we planned to sell a house, but retain the garage and some of the garden…
The geometre came and discussed with us, what we wanted to do.
He then measured everything from every angle…
Drew up a plan showing the division of the 1 parcel… which resulted in 2 new numbers (2 parcels) and cancelling the previous 1 number…
He assured us that these alterations would be lodged/noted at what I understood to be the equivalent of “Land Registry” … in Perigueux.
He told us to mention to our Notaire that he had done this…
Subsequently, the Cadastre showed the newly sectioned parcels with their appropriate numbers…
and when we actually sold the House, the Notaire had our original deeds which included the “old” single parcel, and buildings… plus the newly drawn up plan showing the new division…
Worked like a charm… we sold one plot and kept the other.
So… in my mind… Cadastre links to Land Registry and will enable the owner of a Plot to be identified.
The Deeds themselves are the detailed legal document, agreed by both parties Seller/Buyer… identifying just what is what… and where… and who has paid what etc.
Of course, I might well have gone off my rocker… but I think it’s roughly right…
That’s certainly in agreement with what I was told by the notaire who has handled two purchases for me - one of which involved dividing a parcel of land.
Re establishing a boundary (again). My SE boundary adjoins the back of my neighbour’s place , it’s about 50m long at a guess. The geomètre’s red/orange tags have disappeared. At the back of my neighbour (E) he has built some tin sheds which were there when I bought our place in 2008. There is a stand of 3 mature ash trees on or adjoining the boundary. His tenant, who happens to be a tree-surgeon, tells me that E wants to fell the first ash in the line “because it has a ‘fente’ in it and it might fall across the sheds/yard.”
These ash are doing very well this year. Three or four years ago they were showing some die-back, but they seem to have recovered, like the other big ash trees on my plot. They give my back field good cover and the birds like them. So I don’t want to lose the ash tree, which is around 20m tall and divides into two major parts, one of which overhangs my field. I (almost) prefer trees to (some) humans anyway…
I think that the ash is on the boundary, but I also think that E thinks it’s his. E has history. He eventually got the house back from his divorced wife a year ago after a protracted and nasty dispute, tidied it up and installed the tenant who has tidied up the outside pretty well. Meanwhile E has been clearing the junk from inside the sheds and has dismantled the first one along the boundary. E calls himself “Mr Reclaim” and I am pretty sure he will substitute the sheds he dismantles with some new-old ones.
I’m on speaking terms with E, but around 15 years ago he had a yard dog he kept in a rebar run (sic) in the yard which he never let out. I saved the dog’s life twice when she was impaled off the ground on the rebar fence (yes, it was horrific) and after the second time I refused to give her back, after the vet had stitched her up again. He had to give me the dog otherwise I would have reported him. She was big, about 45 kg, a Beauceron/GSD cross, incredibly intelligent and powerful too. I rescued her at 10 yrs and she made 16. E had destroyed 2 of her litters, only one pup from them did survive - the binman saved one.
So you see, it’s going to be difficult what I do next. Any ideas? If half the tree is taken off, ie the stem overhanging his sheds, it might be unbalanced…
If it only hangs over your land I think you’re SOL. You’d maybe have to buy the strip the trees are on. Then he could still say he was worried about a bit of tree falling on his land if you’d not bought enough land from him.
I’d go to the mairie and ask, also possibly a notaire about rights and boundary, no idea if there are any tree protection laws but could ask.
The guy sounds bad news. I sm guessing he’s making an excuse to cut it down and burn it for firewoid - he sounds tbat cheap.
The trees are roughly on the boundary. Various services excavated at the corner of the field and the border tag is lost so it’s hard to know accurately. I think the ash grew out to my side, it has a substantial lower trunk.
I looked up tree/boundary info here on SF and found a post detailing the laws, but haven’t been able to locate it again. Just now I’m having a very weak signal which is frustrating some connections.
But I read there that the bornes would be decided by the géomètre in such cases and the costs would be split. I would be agreeable to that but I don’t think E would agree to contribute. I’m going to have a close look today when the tenant is out at work. The tenant is fairly neutral, he’s doing some strimming for me later this week.
Ref the dog, I should add that she became a pet (not a barking yard dog any more) and though completely untrained for the first decade of her life, walked to heel with her first collar and lead within an hour of training her, and travelled with me extensively in the UK, France and CI.
So you can teach old dogs new tricks A dedicated escaper from her previous life, she stuck to me like glue. The new tenant is keeping rabbits in the dog compound…I haven’t told him what happened there…
In cases of neighbour disputes, it’s normal here to get the Mèdiateur de la République involved as it was/is a free service to keep people out of the courts. My friend back in Bretagne used one with a border dispute and it worked well and saved both parties thousands in legal stuff.
A dedicated escaper from her previous life, she stuck to me like glue. The new tenant is keeping rabbits in the dog compound…I haven’t told him what happened there…