But I was responding to Geof Cox who said that Brexit only really disadvantages low-middle income people and young people.
My point was simply about professional people who have lost the right to work in France. It has reduced their horizons.
Many people have no wish to invest massively, or run a business, or dedicate their lives to gaining a new citizenship. They want to pursue their profession. They no longer have scope do this Europe wide, they are confined to Britain.
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I posted a reply saying that a working age person should not move to France. I have seen people go through hard times here. the money they bring over with them runs out quicker than they thought. they try to find work gardening and doing changeovers but they are not used to it and can’t do it. they eventually go back to the UK skint. they say they are going back to start the next adventure in their lives (go on benefits and be able to pay Bill’s and buy shopping) there’s no future for kids brought up here. even if they are bright they will end up working in a supermarket or brico.
France is a lovely place to move to if you have money or a good pension. otherwise it’s not suitable if you want to work and earn money.
France is a lovely place to move to. With good education that gives kids a good future.
However, if you come here with no realistic plan about how you are going to earn money then it’s not surprising that it falls apart. Sounds like rather stupid people.
Setting up a changeover or gardening business is perfectly possible - but “trying to find work” gardening or changeovers and expecting to survive comfortably is just daft. You’ll be on minimum wage, and it’s seasonal, so fine for a second income, for those with few overheads or a short term plan. But otherwise rarely sustainable.
Come over here with a proper skills set, a proper plan, and language skills and it’ll be just fine. Post-Brexit it’s the main way you’ll get a visa now, so hopefully this will weed out the chancers who’ve watched A New Life in the Sun and think that’s a factual programme 
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It’s just that, an application, you have no right to it but you’ ve met one of the conditions (5+ years residency) there are other conditions too. It’s a bit different to a dossier filling exercise for a carte de séjour 
And in many eu countries you have to renounce your birth nationality
bazza, I think you’re tarring too many with the same brush! I agree with you on those who manage to “wing-it” in the UK and think it’ll be the same in France (which it isn’t!) and who go back when it all goes wrong and it’s all France’s fault. However… for those who are prepared and have done their research it works, I came over in my late 30s and have worked here right the way through, but I did come here with qualifications (one French one too) and was fluent on arrival. It wasn’t easy as I took a jump into the unknown, on my own, but I had the necessary survival baggage and didn’t need to be in a brit-bubble area to survive.
My kids will do far better here than in the UK, the UK is foreign to them, although technically half English, they are in reality 100% French I presume you’re talking about families where the kids come out late in teenage life, stay a while half UK educated/half French so never get the benefit of either. I think those are a minority, others here may put me right or add their own experiences.
Oh, and amongst the younger generation here we have: a lawyer, a kiné, shop owners, diagnostic surveyor, btp, agriculteur, they’re all working, but there again, they’re all French, but it shows that there is a horizon beyond supermarket shelf-stacking for youngsters in France. As for my generation, we’re all working too
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I understand what you mean now bazza but perhaps it would be more accurate to say “if you are of working age I would recommend you don’t move here WITHOUT A PLAN”.
I would say the same applies to any move, both within the same country and even more so abroad. If you need to work, it is never a good idea to give up your day job and put yourself in a situation where you rely on picking up odd jobs. Unless you have another job to go to, or a realistic plan to set up a business of some kind, it is likely to go belly up.
Quite! I had more problems finding work in Devon when I moved there from Oxfordshire in the late 80s than I did when I moved to France from the UK : I was better prepared for the latter
Absolutely, @JaneJones , @an_droo - my guess is we’ve all come across the kind of ‘ex pat’ Brits @bazza is describing - who have never really grasped cultural/economic differences like the more regulated nature of the French economy - this is just the difference we’ve discussed many times before on SurviveFrance between ‘ex pats’ and immigrants, isn’t it? - between people that just want a sojourn in ‘a lovely place’ and those that really love the French approach to life and are committed to it.
The fact that it’s now harder for some of the ‘ex-pats’ could be brexit’s only positive outcome! But set against this of course is the difficulty immigrants like Andrew would have now (without wealth behind them or a job to come to) - the difficulty even UK students of the French language, who are genuine Francophiles - have in coming here now, even to study, unless they are from wealthy families.
As to ‘there’s no future for kids brought up here’ - how ridiculous is that when we see them absolutely flourishing all around us? - and, indeed, the children of family and friends in the UK struggling?
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Why on earth do you think that? They will have the same opportunities as any child brought up here.
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I’m sorry you are seeing that Geof. It’s not my experience. I see my friends’ children flourishing. But also, I see that my friends’ children see the world offering them opportunities, so they are not sitting bemoaning their fate. To name just a few places where they are making their lives: Moscow, New York, rural New Zealand, Singapore,
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hi
I comment on what I see here.
But - as Jane has already pointed out - you’re not really ‘here’ are you Bazza? - you just have a holiday home - and to us that really live here - make our living here - it’s obvious from your posts that what you ‘see’ is mainly within the ‘ex-pat’ community, rather than representative of most people’s life in France.
Of course everybody’s direct experience is partial - which is why it’s good to back up observations with more objective studies, statistics, etc - and indeed it’s good to test objective data against our own experience.
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I am surprised that so many people apparently made the move to a different country with no security, just hoping that something will turn up when they need it. Maybe it is a phenomenon in certain “ex pat” areas but it is not a thing I have encountered.
It may also be that this is not the best environment for kids to be brought up in if they are to do well. Even bright kids need support at home, to help them choose the best bac option, achieve good results and then choose and follow an ambitious formation. Ex pat parents often find they have a lot of learning to do themselves, in order to be able to help their kids. It is no good thinking, My kid is bright therefore they will do well, I don’t need to help them.
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This is one of the very negative effects of Brexit, Geof, I did my maîtrise here on an erasmus exchange, a year studying with French students : we did our PGCE in the UK and maîtrise fle in here in France. It was a lot to cram into one slightly longer than usual academic year but a great experience and what made me realise I wanted to live in France rather than the UK. Youngsters, even those studying languages as I did, no longer have that oppertunity and I think that’s a huge cultural lose 
Bazza, as Geof has said, I’m aware that the people you are talking about do exist, although I very rarely come across them as I’m not in any ex-pat bubble type comunities/environments (mine’s 100% French). But you must be aware that there are others out there like me who are of working age and for whom France works very well, we’re working, running companies, French companies or in French jobs speaking French everyday (sorry Flocreen but I don’t know of a single job in my town or those around me where you’d get a job without being fluent in French) most of us don’t do forums because we don’t need them and perhaps that’s why you haven’t come across them? (and I’m still here after all these years, as I was from the outset, to keep a toe in an anglophone world 
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Agree completely - I was just pointing out that there are still routes if you have deep pockets. Because the hallmark of Brexit is that the impact at a personal level is considerably mitigated by wealth.
Absolutely - in fact, even if you have the money most won’t to wait around for five years and risk not getting citizenship at the end of it.
But if you do have that sort of money and wanted an EU passport, investing, setting up a business, employing locals would be possible and likely to make the process of gaining citizenship relatively painless - however much it is an unlikely route it is *possible* if - but only if - you are wealthy.
Just Germany, Austria and The Netherlands as I understand it.
I’ll tell our four that, these are their jobs - senior radiographer, IT security specialist, pharmacy worker and pompier/hotel worker. All of them have benefited from being bi-lingual which puts them ahead of French only speakers when applying for jobs.
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Spain too and you need 10 years residency before applying. 
Poland too but not sure they get many applications from Brits for naturalisation !
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OK - a few more than I thought 
It just underlines how crap Brexit is though - we’ve gone from having the freedom to live and work anywhere in the EU to having the freedom to live and work anywhere in a Covid, spite and sewage filled island that is increasingly irrelevant to the modern world.
If I were less close to retirement I’d move to Ireland, exercise my common travel area right to work and then apply for citizenship after 5 years.
As it is the plan is retire then move to France - if there’s anyone left to pay my pension by then.
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Courage !
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Even the Australians have stopped that apparently.
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