Newcomer to this site and looking to move to France

Indeed. One of my friend is a French honorary consul and confirmed that the consulate position on this is that they don’t want the person to be working for a French company or for French clients.

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Second bit is indeed incorrect, the minute your “12+ month visa” gets started you are considered a French tax payer. But Robert you’re also correct in thinking that even if you don’t have a “residency visa” but do spend more than 183 days in France you would have to file your taxes in France nevertheless. Those rules are complementary not exclusive :wink:

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I always thought CSM was by definition levied on passibe/unearned income. It is hard to see how earned income conveniently becomes passive income but presumably that is the only way to declare it for tax, since you are neither a salarié nor non salarié?

They were told that they could not work while in France. Has something changed? They applied in 2023.

Who is “they”?.. if you refer to VFS or TLS (the consulate documentation collector sub-contractor) “they” are not the consulate :wink:

that’s why I’m saying this is a bit of a grey area, the governement really need to clear that out in regard to remote workers. Only one situation is crystal clear and that would owner of a business abroad (managing directors for exemple). In this case it’s perfectly clear, they need to set up a French “branch” or business so that they pay social charges in France. The notion of “subordination” (as per the URSSAF nomenclature) plays a very important part and that’s why there is 0 ambiguity when self-employed or managing director (because you’re your own boss and need to pay social charges for your business in France).

If an non EU passport holder wishes to apply for a French Visitor Visa and says they will be working (including working remotely) whilst in France, the visa will be refused. The applicant must agree that they will not work whilst in France.

If anyone wants to do any kind of work in France they must apply for the correct working Visa (there are a few).

If the applicant wants to run their own business, they will need to complete a business plan for the application.

If the applicant is going to be employed, then the employer must get a work permit for the applicant.

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Likewise if you are on payroll URSSAF is quite cleat thay youur employer must register as an employer with no place of business in France and pay cotisations.
It seems bizarre for your friend the hon consul to be saying it is ok with the consulate for people to be granted a visa to do things that appear to clearly infringe the French social security code and the Fr UK DTA. Perhaps he would indicate what statut he would attribute to these people, in what box they should declare their earned income to the fisc what is their CPAM code/route to healthcare and what workers rights and social security rights they have (sick pay, job security, chômage, employers obligations as per which employment laws)?

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They? My friends. When they applied it was through the London Consulate. Perhaps the ‘you are a visitor you must not work’ part of the visa application has been removed now applications are being handled by agencies. If that’s the case I know a lot of people who would rather be in France working remotely than being at home in England, especially if they will only have to pay a token payment for their healthcare.

It’s surely a rather expensive mistake to think one only has to pay a token payment for healthcare here in France.

Mind you, I suppose it’s only expensive if one falls ill and/or has an accident and does not have the correct cover. :wink: :frowning:

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I dont think you can live in France and continue to work for a company based in the UK or other any other country than France for an indefinite length of time it has to be time limited and after a set amount of time you need to register to pay tax;s in your country of residence. I am only looking at this as an interim option to aid me moving over and giving me time to get my Residency application in, my application for a French Social Security number and get to a point I could either setup my own business or get a job with a French company, or employer with an office in France.

This is interesting, @fabien

What type of visa should someone who wishes to do this apply for, please?

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I was responding to Fabian’s comment, ‘ but for now a remote worker in France with a “non working” visa (visitor) may have to pay something called the CSM tax. I’ve done quite a few articles on that and videos but to simplify this it’s a 6.5% tax on the household income made over 23k (as a single person) or 46k (as a couple)’

That’s exactly what I had been led to believe.

I think you may be a little unclear on the residency process.
Your visa application is your application for permission to reside. Once granted, you may reside in France subject to your visa conditions. If you arrive with the intention of staying then you become resident, and tax resident, as of your date of arrival. Depending on the type of visa you may be required to validate it on arrival, at which point it becomes your resident permit, or you may be required to obtain a separate resident permit, the conditions of which will correspond to your visa conditions. Then when your titre is due for renewal, usually at the end of the first year, you normally rapply to renew like for like.
It is not a case of, you arrive in France on a visa, there is an interim period during which you can live in France but not be classed as resident, and then after a while you start a new process of applying for residency from within France.

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No I am not confused but I am still learning.
My comment above was based on my intention was to change my current job to one of the remote jobs available then start to plan my move to France.
I intend to purchase a property in the New Year and I will apply for a long stay visitors visa with the intention to move to my new home and live in France, but will work remotely so as to be able to cover living costs but once I am in France I will start the process of filling in all the required forms so as to get a social security number and join the French Health Care service (all of which can take up 9-12 months), as well as look to become a Resident and also be able to work in France rather than for a UK company remotely.

I will say I am glad I joined this site as my introduction has given me much to think about and yet more questions to ask.

This is what I do not understand. Once you are in France on a long stay visa you are a resident, so what exactly what is it that you will be looking to do?
To be able to work in France as a TCN you will need to meet the conditions for a visa entrepreneur or salarié, ie either find an employer who will sponsor you or submit a robust business plan for approval.
It might be safer to get your visa/right to work in the bag before you buy the property?

Do you have anything authoritative that says that? The French consulate is primarily responsible for French citizens abroad and has no role in issuing visas or indeed in granting exemptions from social security. So this is hugely confusing and absolutely not what the actual law says.
French law is silent on digital nomads (vloggers etc), but clear that someone who is working remotely for a employer falls under French social security rules.

I will try to find it but I read of one case where a digital nomad was given an OQTF.

This is from URSAFFs website - they clearly don’t think it possible

« Lorsque votre entreprise n’a pas d’établissement en France et que vous embauchez un salarié sur le territoire français, il relève obligatoirement du régime de Sécurité sociale français. Vous devez donc le déclarer et régler les cotisations associées en France, afin de financer sa protection sociale (prestations familiales, remboursement de frais de santé…).

Ces formalités s’effectuent auprès du service firmes étrangères de l’Urssaf. »

That may come as a choc but it is the French consulate who deals with visas :wink: This is the case at least in the UK and the US so they don’t only deal with French expats abroad :+1:

Only under the specific framework set out by ministry of interior and ministry of foreign affairs. A consulate cannot make or waive rules.

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