NHS,what went wrong?

It wasn’t broke till the Tories broke it.

True but it is where it is now.

No use comparing it to the US anymore. There is no doubt the Tories have well and truly broken the NHS. Maybe that was their plan. Regardless of those nincompoops, the NHS needs saving somehow. Now. But how?

Whatever new plan can be written for a free national healthcare service, with present demographics and escalating costs, will take years of reparation. Then there will need to be a managed handover from old system to new, without impinging on patient care. A mammouth task. And not one for which this government is remotely capable, even had they the will, which I doubt.

So how does the severely damaged NHS continue, and get staff and funds to cover more than a bare minimum for the next decade ?

@Geof_Cox , a very clear and coherent report indeed.

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In politics, the usual process is to begin with talking, move on to debate and final is implement.

The chatter has begun

It’s an open secret that the Tories want to privatise the NHS - indeed have been doing so by stealth for years.
Despite the total disasters of inefficiency and incompetence and greed they have wrought with the UK’s railways, water, electricity, etc, perhaps they persist in believing that private ownership is better than public. Or do they? Have they rather abandoned all belief in anything, and just see it as another opportunity for their friends to make a financial killing?

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There is likely to have been a long term plan regarding the NHS, possibly in agreement with US suppliers and providers. ‘Selling’ bits to US companies may be part of the post Brexit economic deals the UK has been making across the pond. There may be no other choice now.

All I can say is they had best hurry up and get on with the building up part, charges or no, as more people are at urgent risk.

I’m afraid that won’t work either… just look more carefully at the US model :wink:
You get injured in a traffic (or other) accident - ambulance requires sight of your insurance before they handle you - and that continues right through the system. If I understood it correctly, that’s why Obama-care was sooo important.


Definitely not what is wanted, or I would imagine what the UK government hopes to achieve but possibly something in between. One that would involve partial patient payments, perhaps means tested, rather than 100% free for 100% of the population.

I’m not saying this is good or easy but I’m predicting. Thing is, a totally free healthcare system in UK is popularly seen as a ‘right’. The trouble is, that it is not even a ‘human right’ and its existence and continuance is at the mercy of government choices, albeit an elected government.

Clearly, unable to continue as is, what indeed are the options? There are numerous issues contributing to the overall breakdown, staffing being one and demographics another. Not unlike in France but to stop the whole NHS house of cards from collapsing the government has to act quickly on at least one front. Costs.

Here’s an idea

the present UK Junta - perhaps…

I’m afraid the C&UP is split between cynics, who think like that, and realists, who don’t but equally can’t see any solution acceptable to the extremists who now seem to be in charge.

I think it was probably originally seen as a great leap forward, and a privilege, but those who think in terms of their own “rights” (rather than “responsibilities”) have encouraged the general population to think on the same lines.

And few consider the effect of a population that is “ageing”. Hence the bewilderment of British people who can’t understand the French outrage at having to wait until 64 to retire!

There was a good article in this week’s New Statesman about the NHS. I think this must be the audio version: A doctor’s prescription for saving the NHS - Audio Long Reads - New Statesman

Essentially (if I understood it correctly) there’s a problem at the “front door” of hospitals, eg because people use A&E as a sort of drop-in service, and 111 sends people there as a precaution; and at the “back door” because of the poor availability of social care. One hospital, for example, estimated a third of its beds were occupied by people who could clinically be discharged but who were stuck because of an absence of social care places.

Good collection of letters on this subject:

Being of a ‘facts and evidence’ bent, I was especially struck by…

Independent sector spend by NHS trusts increased by 659% between 2012 and 2021. Privatisation creates waste. Research from the Centre for Health and the Public Interest shows we waste £4.5bn on managing the internal market created by NHS privatisation.