Paras splat Corbyn

Hi, I haven’t posted for a while, life is hectic at the best of times, depressing at the worst, and the whole Brexit mess is enough to make any sane person living in France a little cuckoo.

This squadie thing caught my attention though, my father was 2 Para, my ex husband was also 2 Para and I worked as a civi for the PT corps teaching (amongst other things) swimming to squadies. Now this was back in the 80s before the “soft” approach to army training took over, I remember my ex going through beastings during his basic training and how physically, and mentally brutal training was. As prospective Paras who would be the best the British army could produce (second to 22 regiment, obviously) they were trained to take whatever the worst of the world could give, this included physical and mental torture techniques, training was extreme and hard for a good reason! It also taught these soldiers respect, real respect for others and senior ranks whether you liked them or not (more often it was not).
I clearly remember years ago an article in a tabloid about a young Para recruit who couldn’t cope with the beastings and his mother complained to his CO and obviously went to the newspapers, there was outcry that our lovely future soldiers could be bullied like this and beastings as they were became a thing of the past, as did tough soldiers and respect.
Training then and earlier was extreme but it meant they could cope with what was to come in places like Ireland, the Falklands, and onwards to Iraq etc.
Their behaviour off the parade ground could be equally extreme and shooting at a photo of someone would have been just a giggle, but they knew that had they been caught doing so they would have been locked up for a few days and accepted it, ditto for fighting in the pub or any number of things they might have done.
I’m waffling (sorry), but the fact remains that soldiers these days aren’t respectful at all, they’re taught their lives through that they have a right to this, that or the other and that they are entitled to their views and opinions; as soldiers they sign on the dotted line to give up their own opinions/views etc. and become an employee who is willing to give their life for their country, that is what they sign up for.
They also sign up on the understanding that the country who asks them to do abhorrent things in its name will protect them and not suddenly, decades down the line turn around and string them up in court for complying with orders that were given at a time of what was effectively a war, just because views today are different and even fighting for some countries has become “soft”.

Don’t misunderstand me, I hate war, I hate fighting, and I even hate arguments but this world is full of some really nasty people and if we insist on having armies and sending soldiers to fight then they should be trained/equipped accordingly, they should understand the atrocities of torture and be equipped to deal with it, they should be taught to respect others; civilians in other places are not the enemy unless they are actively taking part, if they are then they afford the same rules as other enemies.
We can’t expect soldiers to be what we want them to be if we don’t train them properly to be that way, taking the softly, softly, “I don’t want to hurt your feelings or take away your rights” approach to training does not produce the soldiers everyone seems to expect (a dish is only salty if you add salt).
It also produces soldiers who are stupid enough to post videos of themselves doing stupid things on social media!

Right, I’m going to see if the rain has stopped so the normal chaos here can continue :blush:

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It also doesn’t help when the terrorist has more rights than those they are about to blow up!

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Kent, be careful, i posted a comment similar to yours and was almost drawn and quartered.

Dizzy a true word spoken you have. I did the NI hiking route and the camping trip to the south atlantic followed by the sun bathing in the balkans. I fully and heartily agree with your comments. It is unfortunate that the world has gone soft with all their Politcal Correctness. I often wonder how would the PC brigade react if some of the atrocities were to happen to them, would they shake hands and bussy bussy alround and then carry on as with their day to day routine.

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Bit late arriving here as usual. ust briefly skimmed over the points riased, and would like to add just a couple of my own - or in one case that of the erudite, and sadly missed her by me at least - Brian Milne. He produced one of the most telling phrases that has stuck with me by its total sense I.e. ‘We are all creatures of our own experience’. Now it matters not to me if he was the originator of the phrase or not as it does not diminish the value, and relevance of it.

We should try and bear that in mind when we post, BUT we shouldn’t be so overwhelmed by it either. I rather hope Jane that this site is indeed open for discussion and even debate - although there is a limitation on the latter I realise. I hope it will not just drift into relative trivia, much as these may absorb much of our time.

For me Peter I believe your experience as a Mental Nurse has inevitably influenced your attitudes, it could hardly be otherwise. Almost all your postings refer to this element in your life, and whilst I agree with most of what you post, I have an overriding feeling that you see rather too much of the darker side of humanity than usual.

Not one of us is without our attitudes, our feelings and reaction to our own circumstances. In my life I have been called a bigot, an arrogant bastard, and all-round shit - some of the insults I have even written down! However like all of us I am not immune to them, however much I try to believe the opposite.

I certainly don’t want to restrain any strong views - including my own, and am totally prepared to be called out on any of them, and defend or amend them as the case may be. But if there is any danger at all with the BIg Brother scenario, it must be in denial of the right to disagree or comment?

We also should think twice when we realise that there are some of us who did not have a privileged background, and nothing like a ‘privileged’ education, so maybe/probably we don’t always get the words right, or our meanings clear.

However I can honestly say I have never noted anyone on this site being deliberately unpleasant or ‘trolling’ as the expression is. Maybe I just don’t see it, but apart from natural flashes of irritation (myself included) this is a pretty friendly place to spend some time.

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I miss Brian Milne too.
I think that one of the problems of our modern age is that we identify problems coming from certain sections of society and they protest when they are affected by the solution.
This has now led to a more blanket approach and that gets other folks backs up when they are also targeted.
This is being highlighted by what seems the intractable problem of stop and search as a reaction to the growing problem of knife crime in UK.
We have the same problem with what to do with the scattered remnants of Isis and their followers after the defeat of the Caliphate .
I think knife crime has suffered because of the lack of spending to help disadvantaged youth, consequences which should have been foreseen.
What you do about Isis and its remnants is an enormous problem, do you bring them back or keep them in camps forever?
I don’t know.

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Warm, wise and welcome words, Norm1 :hugs:

“I don’t know” @Jane_Williamson

An appropriate coda to Norm1’s post, Jane. I don’t know either. :thinking::zipper_mouth_face:

Jane, we tend to think of knife crime as something new but it isn’t - although ‘knife murder’ certainly is an unpleasant extension. In my older teenage years and early twenties in my area we contended with flick knives, bicycle chains and even fish hooks on jacket sleeves. In my short period as a ‘bouncer’ with my brother having these items on board kept you out of any place we ‘policed’, but they were common, and for the same offered reason - ‘self-defense’.
This was partially true, but ‘being macho’ (perceived) was really the reason. We lived in an age of ‘gangs’ and if it wasn’t West Side Story it was pretty close. Remember it was the age of the Krays who I knew from a distance, and there were plenty of others in that ilk. Being a fully paid-up Member of the Coward’s Club was something one hid from view, but I was fortunate (in some ways) in being my brother’s brother. Although not a villain, he was a genuine ‘hard man’ and respected a such. You didn’t mess with ‘The Bront’ as he was called by some or simply Big Brian which stayed with him all his life. Merchant seaman at 17 years old, 6’6" and 19 stone he was probably one of the gentles t people I have ever known, but like me at a much smaller size we both were easily goaded, and as such people mostly left us alone.
There was one ‘ethic’ of those times though and again it wasn’t universal, just general. In most conflicts it was not considered ‘manly’ for a gang to attack one person. One on One (albeit often one being bigger than the other!) was the norm. Gangs against gangs yes, but that didn’t happen that often.
One other factor that seems to have vanished was the pacifying influence of females - often the inadvertent cause of troubles. From what I see and read these days neither of these factors seem to exist any more, and thatis TRULY disturbing.
I suspect with no knowledge whatsover to back it up, but video games seem to have mass, and crass killings included, but in the end all the pieces get picked up and started all over again. There is no sense of pain included or offered, and I am convinced that this affects young minds who simply don’t realise that real life is not a video game.
Either that or we truly are breeding a new generation of Neanderthals and new and major bloodletting is soon to come. We forget that up until WW1 there was a perceived ‘wisdom’ that mankind ‘needed’ ritual bloodletting to cure its ailments, and that warfare was essential and good for the soul of a Nation’.
I wonder how far we have come from that?

We used to have teddy boys in Morecambe who sewed razor blades in the lapels of their drape jackets.

Makes me sound a bit savage… but, at 16, I had a flick-knife (never used it though) … until it was confiscated by my Dad. Can’t even remember which friend gave it to me… it was all bravado and leather jackets in those days… :crazy_face: and I (the newcomer) wanted to fit in… :upside_down_face::thinking: so stupid… back then…

Nothing stupid about your behaviour, Norma, nor your feelings of wanting to fit in. All “run of the mill” parts of normal physical, mental and social development of the child’s metamorphosis to adulthood. Norman also references the same process with great skill and authnticity in his account of growing up in East London.

His comment about the pacifying and meaning-giving role of women (and girls) is spot-on. Girls are endowed (generally speaking) with a broader and deeper perspective on the world and on the emotional component of experience than boys of the same age, and know how to use it. Of course they have their own particular frailties too. Women generally understand adolescent boys much better (again generally speaking) than men, but there comes a time in a boy’s life when a man’s support is crucial. It doesn’t have to be the father either, or to be long-term. Just a spark of acknowledgement and empathy, no strings attached.

Extended families, “the village” are/is the best culture for healthy human growth. Nuclear families are a fairly recent invention, and as the poet wrote: “They f*** you up, your Mum and Dad…”. Without trying, or knowing how or why, usually! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye::open_mouth:

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A version of Peaky Blinders?

Most of my early physical encounters were actually in Slough, then West London (Hammersmith Palais etc). My early working life was spent in and arounds Silvertown in London Docklands - when they were still working Docks. I suppose overall the three combined covered about ten years in all. There was never a Father in my life as according to family ‘folklore’ he took one look at his second newborn son - and took off!

I was finally to meet him exactly three times over the next twenty years, and he never had a clue who I was on any of these occasions - nor show any interest in knowing me. Curiously my brother had a good and close relationship with him.

Funny old world?

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Last time I was in Brum those replica peaky caps were selling in the Bull Ring market like lightly-oiled 7 O’Clock razorblades. :dizzy_face:

Never watched it.

I saw bits of it but it didn’t capture my interest. It might have more appeal for Brummies, but the accents didn’t sound right to me, a gentrified Brummie exile, who started saying
barth instead of bath and pahst instead of past when I moved to Hackney and met girls from Leytonstone who talked posh. They teased me rotten for saying comING and goING, instead of comin’ and goin’.

Jane they wore peaked caps with razors in the peaks

Peter, I have to say I enjoyed the series an d understand it is still running? Same with the one on Whitechapel - the name of which escapes me at the moment.

However one of the most fascinating and inventive finds for me -on youtube, has been the Russian version of Sherlock Holmes. Great acting of a hyper, nervy Holmes, and the use of the outdoor scenery great. Needless to say it is subtitled, in English but loses nothing in that.
I think Russian and Chinese producers can teach a lot to the Hollywood studios in plots, acting, scenery, and sheer cinematography with almost no swearing throughout!

If others are interested I can provide a list of recommended list of superb films!

‘list of recommended list’? 4.00 FUmble Fingers at play!