Passport stamp on arrival + Etias

It applies to other non-EU citizens living in the EU on longer term visas though, not just Brits. So you’d think there was a mechanism to sort it out - however, as it stands, if you stay in France for > 3 months then leave Schengen via any other country (for exmple heading through Santander again) on your UK passport you’ll get an exit stamp which makes it look as though you have overstayed, as you point out.

why should the EU sort out the mess created by the UK voting to become TCNs? Equally, why should the EU create another level of administration for TCNs anyway beyond what they have already with extended visas?
Do the US (or other jurisdictions for that matter) have such a facility?

My point is that it is nothing to do with Brexit - it is not a “mess created by the UK voting to become TCNs” but a mess for all third country nationals living in the EU - they all have to be careful to exit and enter Schengen via their host nation otherwise risk being acused of overstaying. Chances are it will be sorted quickly, but not without stress for individuals so affected.

It’s also likely to get worse once ETIAS finally comes in, because the system will be so much better at rooting out “overstayers”.

The US doesn’t need it - if you have a visa it applies to the whole of the US.

There’s no equivalent of entering Spain on a UK passport requiring a stamp and the Schengen clock starts ticking, entering France on your CdS (Schengen clock stops ticking but no way to notify anyone), leaving via Spain some months later (Schengen clock briefly restarts while in Spain) and then getting an exit stamp which makes it look like you’ve had >90 days in the Schengen Zone.

A US citizen living in France on a CdS would face the same problem

It’s not Brexit.

For once.

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Hmm… so… for our holiday in Portugal…
last Bill in France… probably a meal/hotel overnight…
then into Spain… bound to buy refreshments as we cross the top of Spain… and drop into Portugal…
touring-time… marvellous.
Sadly, leaving Portugal and entering Spain…
refreshmants/overnight in Spain…
back into France…

Now, so long as there is not more than 90 days between us leaving France and getting back in again… I don’t care who stamps my passport… or not…
as we’ll have receipts from every stop…

Does that sound acceptable???

you surely can’t deny that, had it not been for Brexit, this would not have been an issue :thinking:

Not for Brits, but it would have been an issue.

Effectively, Yes.
As a long stay visa holder for the USA I am given 6 months leave of entry on arrival. Then it is up to me to either apply to extend the 6 month period, or be able to prove that I have left the USA before the end of the 6 month period, and for that purpose, having my passport stamped on re-entering France is very helpful indeed.
Subsequently, when entering the USA, the Immigration Officers always check the passport to make sure that I excited within the 6 month period the last time that I was there.

Also, may I make the point that a CDS will become invalid if a person is continuously absent from France for too long a period. Therefore, having one’s passport stamped when entering France effectively re-sets the clock in relation to that period of time.

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It’s not quite the same.

The equivalent in the US would be if you had right of residency in California, but not elsewhere in the US.

Suppose that you fly into Vegas (Nevada) with your UK passport - the only way they are going to let you in would be on the visa waver scheme, max 90 days.

You then drive home crossing the Nevada/California border, say on the I-15. You stay in California for 5 months.

You then drive back to Vegas planning to fly out. The border guard at the airport looks at your entry stamp and says “no way bro, you’ve overstayed your visa”, assuming you don’t get locked up you probably aren’t going back to the 'States because they are quite touchy about overstaying.

Now, I know US visas don’t work like that, but if they worked in the same way Schengen does then that is what would happen.

A while back I got my passport stamped going out of France and not on way back a few weeks later. It didn’t occur to me to worry (it was during the end of transition turmoil when no-one knew which way was up).

Should anyone have asked or investigated, there would have been no trace of me doing anything in another country after that date. And plenty to show I was back in France. So if it happened now I wouldn’t worry either.

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For the reasons previously given I welcome having my passport stamped both on entry to, and exit from, France.

I appreciate that there are no border posts for land crossings between France and other bordering Schengen countries, but I do feel that any problems relating to that are being exaggerated.

The TCN who is a lawful resident in France may be asked a question or two, if for example they happen to be travelling to or from a non Schengen country via a Schengen country other than France.
The person will of course be able to adduce huge amounts of evidence that they have not overstayed in a Schengen country other than France.
Apart from their CDS they will have their Carte Vitale, Mutuelle, French driving licence, and French bank cards. No doubt their wallet or purse will contain various purchase receipts from France, and their bank statements will show a myriad of transactions undertaken at various locations in France. If traveling by car they will have all their French vehicle documents with them. One phone call to the Mairie would confirm that they are lawful permanent residents in France.

Of course don’t forget that a mobile phone is in effect a location tracking device, the records in relation to which, will quickly establish where that phone has been ‘living’.

A few words of explanation will quickly confirm that they are bona fide travellers who just happen to be entering / exiting France through another Schengen country, perhaps for reasons of either convenience or economy.

All in all, I really don’t see that there is a problem other than for the purposes of technical and academic discussion.
In general, law enforcement personnel have better things to do with their time.

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but its not law enforcement - its border control - a different animal altogether, not unlike the Douanes .

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no matter who it is doing the checking on people… ordinary folk… leading ordinary lives… really shouldn’t have any problems… as @Robert_Hodge has suggested…

phew… one thing less to worry about…

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Robert’s post smacks of “if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear from the authorities” - well, yes but the intrusion into one’s life might well be unpleasant and not all “law enforcement” even in developed countries with stable and sensible governments is benign - and “stable and sensible government” is under threat at the moment globally and, as Graham says, border force tends to be a law unto itself.

At the moment I suspect Robert is right and not much will come of it, especially if the “permanent residence” address is within the EU - it would be interesting to know if anyone with a CdS has done entry and exit via Spain with > 90 days in France in between.

But EES (sorry, I said ETIAS above - I meant EES but ETIAS will have a bearing as well) is designed to catch overstayers more thoroughly, and as soon after 90 days as possible, so there’s no guarantee there won’t be hassle cause to at least some people.

I think (hope) it is going to be like the “Attestation d’accueil” situation - theoretically a problem and the cause of some anxiety until we know how the authorities will play it, then everyone will relax and get on with their lives largely untroubled by it.

another good reason for Residents to become “involved” in commune life… and French life in general… see and be seen… :+1: :+1:

I am interested in this discussion, even though I am highly unlikely to ever be affected by it, but was just wondering. What sort of punishment is likely to be unleashed if you transgress, wittingly or unwittingly, Schengen rules?

If, as a permanent resident in France, after a holiday in the UK and then return home via Spain for some reason, and then never go near Spain again after not being checked on exit. What are they going to do? Extradite you? And if they do, what then? Fine? Gaol? Offer of a Spanish residency?

Only partly joking, but it is hardly a heinous crime, is it?

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would depend on the circumstances and what contrary evidence you can produce, but the rules allow for exclusion from Schengen and a ban on return… so serious stuff.

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Presumably you mean exclusion from Schengen other than your Schengen country of residence do you? They aren’t going to chuck us out of France, are they?

And how are you expected to get a stamp if you cross via those myriad un-manned borders. How far do you have to drive to find a stamper?

Lastly, unless there has been a border crackdown since I was last criss-crossing the EU frequently, it is quite easy to enter and exit an adjoining country without being noticed. And if you are checked inside a Schengen country without an entry stamp do they deport you? And if so, where to, residency or nationality?

During the course of my travels with dogs, I was almost weekly in and out of Spain, often Italy, Belgium and Luxembourg too and, on occasions wandering through Germany, Holland, Austria, Slovakia and Hungary, and never once had my passport checked in 11 years.

they could… and withdraw your CdS entitlements for France…

As happened to me on my next trip after having my passport wrongly stamped. I explained what happened, and the border officer just rolled his eyes and said ‘no problem, you’re OK’ and all was OK. Never got asked again after that.

they could… and withdraw your CdS entitlements for France…

Really? So where are you supposed to travel to to get a stamp? Some of the borders are totally invisible now, you never know which country you are in till you see a road sign.