QROPS Pension Transfer Blocked in the Budget,

I decided to pursue this yesterday.

I spoke to LV= who are the recommended annuity provider of my pension provider, Reassure. They gave me a flat “no”, but told me to talk to Reassure & ask if they had any other options. That was also met with a flat “no, we can’t help”.

I then decided to call my wife’s annuity provider (Legal & General) as she is clearly a non-UK resident & receives her pension without a problem. I spoke to a very competent person whose initial reaction was “it’s no problem, but I’ll double check”, which they duly did, coming back with an affirmation that they can indeed deal with the likes fo me.

OK, I’ve still got to apply properly, but all looks good at the moment.

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Good work… so legal and general is a possible. The big question here is- Will they accept a transfer in from another pension provider if the client is non resident.

The big problem has been setting up the new pension and transferring the pension to them.

I’ll see if I have any clients with L&G pension and see if they wouldn’t mind me getting authority on their pension and asking the questions.

That’s a bummer - my smaller pension pot (about 25% of the total) is with Reassure.

(It used to be an L&G managed pension but they flogged it to Reassure. I kept it going instead of consolidating with my other funds as it has a regular bonus aspect).

They are a bit unhelpful actually - I messaged them specifically about drawdown when I become French resident and they just sent me a standard document about “your pension withdrawal options” - they ignored the actual question.

Wazzocks. Sounds like I might have to go the “25% tax free and an annuity before moving” route with that pot and do drawdown into my Nationwide account with the other one…

I assume the UK tax-free withdrawal allowance is “25% of each individual pension pot” not “25% of all pension investments added together”?

That was exactly my problem. In fact it got sold on multiple times and ended up as just a pension pot with absolutely no options other than total withdrawal or purchasing an annuity with someone else. The latter option proved to be impossible. Although L&G will provide an annuity on an existing pot that they hold, they will not start an annuity for anyone who hasn’t a pot with them and wants to transfer in.
My partner has a (very tiny) pot with L&G and is trying to transfer his other 2 small pots to them so he can consolidate them. He has so far had 2 opposing views on that possibility, both from L&G, one saying he could add to his pot and the other saying he couldn’t. The jury is still out and he is pursuing it.

Based on my experience, Chris, I would stongly recommend setting up your annuity just before you leave the UK. I had to withdraw the entire pot and pay tax on the lot. Twice in fact since I am tax resident in France and will be paying tax on the total amount but before paying it out, tax was deducted in the UK and I am struggling to get it back. Pain in the proverbial…

Thank you that does sound logical… I was thinking about doing drawdown on both pots but if Reassure are going to be awkward then I might as well get a small annuity with them, it’s guaranteed income so mitigates any risk there might be with stock markets etc.

Anyway I don’t have to decide just yet but hearing about your experience is valuable!

I shall report back as to whether my partner is successful in amalgamating his pots into L&G or not but in order to keep options open, it might be a good idea to make sure that all pots are with companies who can offer annuities or drawdown or both, before you leave the UK. The only problem with accessing an annuity after leaving the UK, provided the pot is already with a company who provides them, is that for each new pension you start to access, you have to fill in HMRC’s unhelpful form (FFI) in order to reclaim the tax they will automatically take from it. They work on the assumption that every income source that starts in the UK is taxable by them, even if you’ve been a fiscal resident of France for donkeys’ years.

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Thank you @AngelaR i will definitely get it sorted before I move…

I’m a bit confused here because, ignoring for the moment the non-resident issue, I thought that one had the right to purchase an annuity from any provider, not just the provider who holds the pension funds. One does not have to transfer the funds, the annuity provider will be paid by the holder of the pension funds.

And now bringing in the non-resident issue, we seem to be saying such a right to purchase an annuity from any provider is extinguished if non resident, even though the UK annuity provider is dealing with the UK pension company?

Presumably because UK annuity companies won’t deal with non-residents. Although Aviva decided they could - after a fight.

May I ask which providers you are referencing which will not allowing draw down or annuity.
I worked in the UK for 11 years; the company portion is ok as it is final salary and will pay to France when the time comes. I also have an AVC with Standard Life and I will have to take as a lump sum. I cant see away around it.

Gosh my Englisch is getting worse.

As I understand it, and as was explained to us by the various companies with whom we had pension pots - if you have a pension pot with a company that provides an annuity, you are fine, even if non-UK resident.
However, although transfer of pension pots between companies is perfectly acceptable in the UK it is NOT allowed for non-residents. If you want to transfer to a new company or start an annuity with a new provider, that classifies as a new contract and is not permissible.
From all we have found so far, that appears to be an absolute. I am seriously unhappy about it because i have effectively lost my stakeholder pension as a result of the pot being transferred without my say-so to a provider who does not do annuities.

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Yes that is the information I have, luckily it is not too much, but the idiots that voted Brexit have costed you, others and myself money.

That is the understatement of the century!! :smiley:

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It’s because an annuity is new business… so a new contract which means a level of advice which can’t be given as there is no valid licence to provide the advice or service to a non resident.

I have clients with pensions that the providers does offer annuities and still won’t allow non residents to do that.

Some pensions won’t even entertain flexi drawdown… only full withdrawal!

I’ll have an option for a UK SIPP soon hopefully, but we need something that is written under contract law and isn’t on a trust platform that will take French residents.

I think I have an option in Jersey but want to avoid the Channel Islands if possible as the ACPR in France aren’t keen on assets being there.

I consolidated my three pension pot into one SIPP with the Prudential (now M&G) and drew out a tax free lump sum before moving to France. I currently do flexi drawdown without any issues. Are we saying that the upcoming pension legislation may upend all this and make it difficult if not impossible to do in the future ?

Not sure I even know what an annuity is, much less a draw down. All I have from the UK is a company pension, a state pension and a piddling little pittance from the Pru, all paid monthly or, in the case of the UK State, 4 weekly, into my UK bank account.

With a couple of modest French pensions, they keep me in reasonable comfort and without any debt.

I transfer the UK ones as and when needed and the exchange rate is worth it.

An annuity is where you hand over all or part of a pension pot to an insurance company in exchange for a regular monthly income. The amount they give you depends on how much money you have in your pension pot, or choose to invest, along with various calculations about your state of health and life expectancy, as well as what level general interest rates are at, at the time you start the annuity.

The older you are and the poorer health you are in, the more they will give you per month in exchange for your investment (as they reckon there is a fair chance of you dying before you have cost them money!). If you beat the average and live to 120 then you are quids in!

Annuities also tend to pay more when interest rates generally are high, and vice versa. In recent years they have been reckoned to be poor value as interest rates were very low in the UK, but have come back into favour in the last couple of years.

An annuity can either be a flat rate per month (in which case its effective value to you decreases as time goes on due to inflation), or increase by a percentage each year to try and keep pace with inflation. The starting amount you get per month with an increasing annuity is less than you would get with a fixed rate one.

The downsides to an annuity are that once you have set one up you can’t normally change it or withdraw your money, and usually it expires with your death i.e. there will be nothing left for the beneficiaries of your will (though you can get an annuity that is transferable to a spouse on your death). There are other types but those are the basics as I understand them!

“Draw-down” on the other hand means you leave your money invested with the pension provider, and just take money out either on a regular basis or as and when you need it - the frequency and amount withdrawn is up to you.

The advantage of this is the money stays invested and should continue to increase as time goes on, but you are also exposed to the vagaries of the stock market so if the fund does less well for a time you may have to reduce your withdrawals for a while, and essentially pace yourself so that the pension pot doesn’t run out before you die.

There is a rule of thumb (worked out by a US analyst called Bill Bengen) that said you should be able to “draw down” 4% of your pot each year and it would not run out - this was based on analysis of investment performance from 1926 to 1976.

Obviously you could take out less (say 3%) if you wanted to be cautious, or a higher percentage if you have other sources of income or felt adventurous (or are not planning in leaving any money to the offspring etc.!)

With drawdown if there is money left in your pot when you die it goes to your heirs, as per your will (and French law!)

That’s my understanding of it anyway - can you tell I have been researching this recently?

@Dave_Lawson do I get my Blue Peter financial adviser badge? :smiley: :smiley:

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Thats my understanding too @ChrisMann , I started taking mine at 55 and kept in drawdown . I was told/vaguely recall :thinking: that I could only keep my pot in drawdown until I’m 70, when buying an annuity would be obligatory. My IFA is doing a good job (I think) as I’m taking about 8% keeping the capital stable. If you’re interested I can give you his details- he’s in Banstead so reasonably local for you.

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I’m not sure that an annuity at 70 is obligatory - it may vary according to the provider. The provider websites I’ve looked at don’t mention it, except for one which said they would “do a review” at age 75.

I don;t know the exact answer, another one for our IFA experts on here.

Thanks for the IFA suggestion, I already have an “adviser bloke” so am OK for now thank you!

I’d rather keep it in drawdown, I’ll be bending our resident pension experts ear at the forthcoming SF (northern branch) meal.