Jane … my comment was part and parcel of how the Rules are explained… it was only a light-hearted remark.
But there are a number situations where the place a person spends most of their time is not deemed their place of residence.
Eg a person who spends most of their time working outside of France, is deemed resident in France if that is where their family / foyer is.
A person who own their only or main property in France and has their only or main pension from France but who spends their time travelling the world and rarely or never actually sets foot in France, is deemed resident in France.
A person who owns and derives their principal income from a French business is deemed resident in France even if they spend most of the year outside France
Some people have genuinely peripetitic / jetsetting / international lifestyles.
But the rules are designed to prevent people from avoiding taxes by muddying the waters for its own sake.
My comments were for folk who have property in more than one country - these folk need to arrange their lives/visits so that their Tax situation suits them in accordance with the Tax Laws (or whatever) of the country.
“to escape French tax domiciliation, only proving that you stay less than 183 days in France is not admissible since you will also have to prove that you have spent more time in another country.”
The point is that France has 3 core residence criteria - foyer, centre of financial interests, length of time in France. Meeting just one of them can be sufficient for you to be classed as resident, and it’s the first 2 that are the most important; length of time in France only comes into it if for some reason there is doubt over where your family home is and where your centre of financial interests is. So even if you can prove you spent 300 days in another country, if you meet one of the other two criteria you will still not necessarily “escape French tax domiciliation”.
Counting days and thinking you’ve ticked a box is a naïve approach to an important issue but unfortunately some people are convinced that’s all there is to it.
My comments are only relevant for someone hoping to use the 183 day thingy… nothing more than that.
As you rightly say, some folk are naive enough to think it will work…
Not so, Anna; we are required to declare worldwide income in two countries: France and Australia.
My record shows that I worled in several countries for lengthy periods under Contracts. Ifyou receive notifcation that ‘Tax Paid at Source’ as I did (under a Company seal and signed) that was usually OK with the French Tax people. I could be wrong but I think this applies to UK Pension payments anyway? Taxed before we get them?
So, I think you declare income and if tax has been paid at source (with evidence from the employing company) then you should be OK - however thinking about it there needs to be some sort of protocol between the countries and France.
The Taxation authorities here are very helpful, and non-aggressive I found, and once a status has been established then all is well.
CAVEAT I stopped earnings some 14 years ago, so I will not claim that this is current information.
Only certain “government” pensions are taxed at source in the UK Norman. This is the list
A UK state pension should be taxed in France. And lump sums that would be tax free for UK residents are taxed in France.
Absolutel, sorry I was thinking of the OP’s situation as a Brit, but of course every country has its own tax treaty. Some require all their citizens to declare worldwide income even if they live abroad but the UK doesn’t.
There is - it’s called a tax treaty.
The point is that the income needs to be taxed in the right country, ie the country specified in the France-UK tax treaty. If it’s been taxed at source in the wrong country then you would need to pay tax in the country where it’s due and reclaim it from the country where it was wrongly paid - which from what folks say, if reclaiming it from HMRC the process can take many years. So best avoided.
Large employers are savvy and won’t deduct tax at source if the income isn’t taxable in that country, but small employers who don’t have inhouse tax expertise sometimes get it wrong.
Under the treaty, UK state pensions for folk who live in France are taxable in France.
Thank you for responding, Anna. Am a British and an Australian citizen; was confused re tax responsibilities to begin with but all is clear and in order now!
This is not directly Brexit related but you may want to factor in your UK property into your decision making. Our experience of five years ago was of moving to a property that we bought in France but retaining a UK one. We rented out the UK one and declared income in both UK and France as we ran a gite in France to gain access to French healthcare. Our initial intention was to become French residents.
We then decided to sell the UK property and by chance discovered that we would be liable for significant social charges on the capital gains as it would not have counted as the sale of our home. This was separate and in addition to capital gains tax liability in France on the UK sale. The exemption period for the two French taxes were different.
So, and this is a complicated tale, we checked our entitlement to UK continuing residency using HMRC’s calculator. Fortunately for us we were able to qualify for continuing UK residency but to do this whilst selling the UK house lived on a residential narrow boat in the UK for more than the 183 days/year (but the tax years are different so this took some care).
In the end it worked out ok and we sold up in France as well and paid no capital gains. Again though we had to consider UK capital gains laws.
Some of the legalities may have changed but I just thought that this might help in your decision making. Good luck! Kevin
That’s a good point, easily overlooked!
Thanks again everyone, all grist to the mill!
Whew! I think I got about a tenth of this, but then it’s 12:20 AM here in Tarrytown, NY and I just finished listening to the first presidential debate here in the home of the free and the brave. The debate, truly, was less complicated than this forum – and I was happy for Adrian White, who asked a question, and got a superb response.
- you’re spot on there Leo!
I am a uk national but resident in France for nearly 40 years with a current 10 year Carte de Sejour. I have applied for French citizenship by decree and awaiting my call for interview. My question is as follows… If I decide to enter into a PAC agreement with my English partner who currently lives in uk, would she have the right to live in France and apply for a CdS as soon as she moves here? Thanks for any input on this
This may cover some of your questions, but I thought that you had to be living together ?
Yes it seems you have to be living together … this may explain things better …
we will be living together as from end july when she finishes her work commitments in uk
@phillipcox I find it hard to believe / understand how, after living in France for nearly 40 years, you can’t find the info yourself. What’s going on here ?