Retire , move to france

(Barbara Deane) #21

to get a carte de sejour one must be able to prove a livable income with I believe is aound 13 thousand plus the ability to service your property.

(Michael Archer) #22

With the uncertainty of Brexit then you must seriously have a re-think Michael Kellett.

(Paul Flinders) #23

The following figures don’t come from a French government site as I’m away from my usual internet resources (so should not be considered accurate) but the minimum income for a couple under 65 seems to be 682€/mo (8182€/year) and 13765€ per year for a couple over 65.

To be considered legally resident you need to have health insurance.

Now I don’t know about you but I doubt I could live on 8k€ a year - for even a modest property water/phone/internet/heating/electricity and TF/TH are likely to be a quarter of that or more. France is expensive for food - I suspect that if it were just my wife and I 100€ a week would cover the shopping but I’m not sure how much more it could be pared down - that leaves very little for such “luxuries” as running a car. In fact I would think you would not be able to afford household bills, taxes, food, health insurance and a car at the minimum income levels to be “legal”. Doubtless there isother stuff that I have forgotten in a quick back-of -the-envelope calculation.

Even assuming 8k€ is enough you say £200k - so about 225k€, let’s say you spend 100k€ on a property and renovation leaving you 125k€ - that would last 15 years which would be long enough for your UK state pension to kick in (but note that a UK basic state pension for a married couple does not reach the 13675€ threshold).

So,… if you can find the right property and are ultra careful with your cash you might be able to do it. It is worth going over the expat forums though as many have tried before you - some have ended up happy and some not.

But - with that sort of resource you need to consider it a permanent move, there will be a point where you need healthcare input and a lot of Brits wind up looking for a move back to the UK at that point. However property in France moves slowly, especially the sort of thing that attracts Brits on a low budget in the first place and some have found that their only asset is a house in France which is hard to liquidate. So please think the numbers through carefully and make sure you have an escape plan.

Edit: I said 100€ a month for shopping - I meant 100€ a week - we regularly spend more than that for a week’s stay but I think we could get it down below 100 for just the two of us with some care. At home it’s £80-100 per week for the main shop with “extras” along the way.

(Timothy Cole) #24

We took a chance moving here but had in place a Plan B if it didn’t work out, keeping property in the UK was a must which it’s sounds as if the OP doesn’t have the option of so if things turn sour then you’re stuffed which heading towards 60 is tough.

(Barbara Deane) #25

seriously 50 euros a week for food!
Bread, jam, tea, a few bottles of wine and maybe a chicken one day.
Oh the wine is for you not me…do not drink!
no cat or dog and yes a dozen eggs and a piece of cheese.
That is your lot!
50 euros does not buy our cat food!
Came to France to enjoy the last portion of life…food has been part of my life…
and cats so maybe I am different to most people?

(Bill Morgan) #26

Sometimes, if you don’t take a chance you do nothin’, we’re ‘a long time deid’ :thinking:

(stella wood) #27

Hi Mike and Sue… welcome to the Forum…

Your idea is wonderful… it is do-able… :grinning::laughing::relaxed:

but only with great care/planning …and more money than you are talking about. :thinking::zipper_mouth_face::hushed:

You say that a relative has a house in Limoges… could you use that for a while - holidays or time-out… while still working in UK… earning money ???

Spending time here would enable you to get an idea of what living over here actually involves… take the time to check on areas/prices/taxes and the million and one things that you need to take on board… ??? :thinking:

We bought a holiday-house dirt-cheap with a view to eventual retirement… renovating while we were still earning… :relaxed: Anyway, plans escalated and we arrived with a good “pot”… but very well ahead of retirement.

You can be sure that no matter how well you plan, things (house repairs and general living, taxes/health etc) will run over budget… so that, in itself, needs to be allowed for… your savings will vanish like snow in summer… :hushed: been there, done that…:wink:

Take your time… do your sums… and be very sure before you take the leap.
In France there is no financial “safety-net”… and many folk have had to return to UK when things have not worked out… that is a ghastly situation to be in. :zipper_mouth_face:

I would say, use Limoges as a base (if you can) to check the area… lots of cheap houses with land… nothing to lose by looking around… but keep the “day-job” in the meantime… :relaxed:

(Barbara Deane) #28

YES good idea.
Even up to recently I wondered if all will be ok even though we have income from having our own buisness. It started slowly and then went rather well for the last few years. But rather well meant constantly planning and working and trying to do every thing correctly.
We can enjoy life ……but not in the fast lane.
Just recently the hard work has really paid off and this is exciting.
But this does mean that if you come to France with a plan…and make one or 2
sacrifices you can be rewarded.
You have skills…different to mine bring them here and use them for a few years.

(Michael kellett) #29

Lovely !!,

(Michael kellett) #30

A lot of sound and interesting advise , thank you

(Jane Jones) #31

If this is the plan for when you are 55, or in 3 years time, then it will be post Brexit. No-one knows what the position will be but if you look at the situation now for non-European immigrants it may well be similar. So, you are unlikely to have automatic freedom to enter and live in France. And there may well be hurdles to jump to get permission, which may well hinge on having a suitable income.

As Paul F says this is currently around 9k a year for people from UK to be accepted, as you have to be able to live without state support. So ideally you have to have enough capital to generate that amount. I think the french have a calculator to work out what capital would equate to that…but if it’s based on capital earning an annual interest of 2% then you would need 450,000! Whether they would allow you to “eat” your capital instead I don’t know. But you need to find out.

Also bear in mind that french taxes are not cheap on top of income tax you have social charges of around 15% and your contribution to health system of 8%. If you are living on capital then these of course won’t apply, but if you can’t get access to french state health service it will be expensive. And you will be at the mercy of the euro/pound exchange rate.

So I think a bit more thinking might be needed… there’s always a way to do things, but sometimes you need to look at plan b, c and d first.

(Barbara Deane) #32

There are many ways to do it.
But at your age with the amount of capitol you have you will need to do some work for some more years.
We came with a mission and a fair sum which was invested in a property and we have made this property…together with our skills and knowledge within our industry we have created what we came here to do.
Think long and hard about making that money work for you but you will have to add a good few years of adding to the project.And you will probably get a small French pension.

(Patrick O'brien) #33

I agree with Jane Jones , your projected income is nowhere near sufficient ,and I doubt if you would be allowed to stay as a french resident with such meagre resources . You don’t seem to be hoping for paid employment or setting up a business , and the interest on about 100k€ would be about 2000€ pa (best case). I have lived here over 25 years and have seen several families come here with your sort of “plan” only to be forced to return virtually penniless to the UK after a few years, The sort of house you could buy for 80k € would probably need at least that amount again to make it livable. You say you will “dip into pension pot” - so what sort of pension income will you have when you finally draw it? Pension pots are supposed to supply a living income in old age (which could last for 30 years or more ). What’s wrong with working in the UK, saving, and retiring comfortably at a sensible age?

(Barbara Deane) #34

maybe he does not like UK.

(stella wood) #35

We all have our dreams… doesn’t mean we have nightmares as well… well, not always… :relaxed::zipper_mouth_face::wink::wink::wink:

(Bill Morgan) #36

Far from it! :+1:

(Barbara Deane) #37

all depends how we deal with things and what we put into our life.

(stella wood) #38

Positive folk, can usually make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear…

Positive attitude, sense of humour and the willingness to work hard… anyone with that lot should succeed… just like you Barbara…:relaxed::relaxed::relaxed:

(Barbara Deane) #39

Well I started from nothing. All I knew was work.
Sense of humour…not a great one but I will survive.
But it is a little different now…harder… we have strange times, odd politicians…
that snakes and ladder comes to mind. A hell of a lot of competition out there too.

(Graham Lees) #40

I’ve followed Parsnips’ many posts over the 10+ years we have been here and I have to say that he is consistently spot on with his advice so heed it well!
Many people may well have been able to perform wonders with wrecks but that was at a time when £1bought you 1.40€ (or more) and interest on savings in French bank accounts would exceed the cost of borrowing by a factor of 2 to 1 meaning you could borrow the equivalent of 100k€ and the interest you would pay on the loan would be more than covered by the interest less tax on your savings so be wary !
The elephant in the room currently is (dare I say it) Brexit and financial passporting in particular.
Whilst no expert in such matters (there are those who are so be guided appropriately) I understand there is a risk - if you live in Europe permanently - that it may become illegal for any private pension to be paid outside of the UK and may even be illegal to be paid into a UK bank account if you live outside of the UK. From further understanding, this would not apply to UK Govt Service pensions (but think the same will apply for State Pension). In that event, a QROPS scheme would be required so that the monies are help outside of the UK but there are minimal limits to consider.
This is not intended to be negative but to assist you to further your plans.
Get good advice is the order of the day and don’t think that you can just ‘splash the cash’ and it will all come good. It probably won’t (to which others have testified)…