Setting up Solar Water Heating

We have been very impressed with the advice and services of Enershop, who were recommended by Brian Milne to us. We hope to install an akvaterm tank with solar tubes next year. I am currently going through the ecopret taux zero loan process with my bank to fund the installation of that and a wood gasification boiler. Very happy to share info if you would like to add me as a friend and message me.

We have Kingspan thermomax panels. They give a 20 year guarantee unlike some others and if you contact Kingspan they will give you a local distributor/fitter. We have had the system for 6 years now and with no problems. It is extremely efficient even, in the winter months. The good thing about these as well is that they are all individual tubes and not an all in one panel, so if there is any damage to a tube you can have just the tube replaced. It has reduced our electric bills significantly and it runs our holidays lets as well.

See here http://www.kingspansolar.com/products/thermomax.aspx

Yes my understanding is that for solar Thermique (none for Solar PV) is limited to 15% only on the cost of the equipment that means the panel only. That will for the majority of homes work out to be about 150€. There is a better % credit available but you need to install two types of energy saving to qualify.
Also and yes the Panel has to be approved, however with good advice you can easily save more than the tax credit.

I thought the credits were still available for this year as long as the panels used are of a certain certification.

Rusheda Just to be clear Tax credits are no longer available for solar hot water installations sinbe 2014. some houses might still qualify for a small grant but to get this there are quite a few things that have to be set in place for that to happen.

However saying all that it is still the way to go.

Yes John, exactly pinpointing one of our bones of contention. Earlier this year our old machine gave up the ghost after a storm caused a power failure whilst it was on, so we bought a highly rated Bosch machine and looked at all the technical spec on line, discussed it in store and so on. The store even helped us prepare a successful insurance claim with a statement from their repair workshop verifying damage caused by a power failure (whether such a thing is possible or not). Diversions aside, the machine was delivered. The delivery man installed and took the old machine away. However, our luck was that although he was working as a delivery man/installer that was the only job he could get close to his trade which is a properly trained technician for electrical goods. We asked him whether he could connect the hot water since he had installed a Y connector to the cold. He explained that using our hot water supply, it being early summer and direct from solar, thus very hot, would damage if not quickly kill the machine. Any water above 40°C is out of the question. He explained that the companies making washing machines and dishwashers fail to explain that adequately but also in his opinion that is dishonest. If we had a mixer that gave us no more than 40°C then fine but direct never.

We contact Bosch whose help desk in Germany waffled but the fact of the matter is that once we had prised an answer out of them it came down to the 40°C issue. I wonder why any manufacturer actually bothers since the actual amount of energy required to heat water to 40° which is a standard for many washes is minimal, fair enough with hotter washes which are less frequent and quite obvious for 30° and cold washes. It is, as we learned, as John says that those machines are a subject on their own.

Stephany, please pop back when you have some information and continue your discussion, it's a subject I and probably many others are interested in.

Rusheda, the hot/cold fill washing machine/dishwasher is a subject on it's own. What temp is your normal washing cycle as it appears the majority of machines still pull in cold water and heat it when washing below or at 40 deg from reports by other owners.

Thanks Rusheda - that is great to hear. We are liaising with a few people/companies and finding out all we can before we choose who to turn to. We are convinced that this is the way to go. X

We had a (2) flat panel solar hot water system fitted around 8 years ago. Hubby priced up buying all the bits to DIY, then we got the professionals in for quotes. There is a site (I can't recall at present) which has a list of gov't registered installers. Our professional did all the paperwork for eco-tax relief etc. on our behalf. In short, the system gross cost was 6000 euro at the time. We received 50% tax rebate and a further 800 euro grant from the Tarn regional something-or-other, bringing the final cost to us down to 2200 euro. (We did have to pay 5200 euro up front then submit our tax return and wait for the re-imbursement -- (even though we didn't actually have any tax to pay)). It ended up costing less than DIY and came with a full guarantee, which we made full use of because it did have teething problems at first.

My advice is to have it done tomorrow. It's the best money we have ever invested. In summer there are up to 8 of us in the house and we never run out of piping hot water (and we don't have a huge tank). Even in winter we rarely resort to the immersion heater.

Our tank is fitted very close to the utilities so we have installed a manual system of switching between hot and cold water feeds to the washing machine and dishwasher, so we can fill both with hot water from the tank rather then the machines heating up cold water (standard French system) and adding to cost.

John, Yes you can use low voltage/wattage immersion heaters in your tank and they are available in various DC variants but be carefull of cable sizing. This however is terrible use of PV I would not recommend it unless you have a surplus of PV powering something else. Also we are back to the daytime scenario so your EV tubes will be working to heat your tank with much greater efficiency. PV efficiency is under 20% and hates shade and only trickles in heat.
I am not certain what you are trying to achieve, however I will be happy to comment and discus any ideas you may have.

Thanks Richard, Yes the thermal dynamics seem to have a larger investment but primarily that's down to the supply company wanting a big fat slice as in essence they employ the same mechanics as a small heat pump 2.5-3 kw output not the larger swimming pool 13,000-17,000 output that I usually see but they want similar or even more money. So running cost are that of a fridge. The only new part is the large flat collector plate. The major and I await your feedback is that solar can heat the water during the day but if say 4-5 people shower at the end of a hot day the tank is effectively emptied and so the electric heater element steps in to top up and refil with hot water. Ok if people showered when they get up but in reality evenings after work or sunbathing would be more common so you would possibly need a bigger water tank at more cost. Don't get me wrong I am a great fan of evac tubes and minimal grid electricity but how the hot water is utilised and not what it can do are also part of the equation.

I was looking a a low power electric heating element of say 200- 300watts being built into my existing hot cylinder and powering that from PV ok not a quick heat but over many hours it could still trickle heat the tank but then the evening shower routine may prove it worthless. I certainly feel using solar of one form or another should be used and it would save quite a bit if the supply was plumbed to a washing maching. Likewise the latest tumble dryers incorporate air source heat pump technology and they don't cost anywhere near as much as the same mechanics sold by a thermodynamics company from Essex.

John I am not knocking themodynamic systems, however they require a bigger investment and cost more to run. Pure thermic flat plate or evacuated tubes have less investment very low running costs due to all systems that now have be fitted with eco or PV pumps. Also many people point out that they are interested in the payback time and that will be evac/flat plate.
Then of course we could go on to discuss stand alone systems that have even lower costs and can be intergrated into an existing system, these only require a water connection to work.

Thank you for some great replies - we are very much aware that the part professionals play is important. My husband is a professional in his field and comes up against people who believe they are experts all too often. We will tread carefully !

Let this discussion continue ! I will ' friend ' you Richard !

Now this can get tricky as we discuss systems but Richard you are only discussing a phone call/email.

The thermodynamic system has a plus over solar evac tubes/flat plates as the panel can be placed anywhere that's not in the shade I believe so no absolute requirement to be at a certain angle and on the roof so lots more flexibility there and it can work in the night time.

Would rather discuss ideas than end the topic.

Stephany some good advice has been given on your post, however seek professional advice, each installation has its own peculiarities, as well as your own personal requirements. No answer here is right for you or anyone wanting a solar system.

I can give good advise if you contact me I am more than familiar with all things solar.

I think you have to friend me for contact!

Thanks Bob, we will investigate the Navitron company.

No John, I meant I had sent the ' friend ' request to Brian so that he could send me details. Thanks for your input. We are constricted by cost and the ergonomics of the house so it will be interesting how this post goes ! All ideas will be studied carefully !

They have French agents too and also Navitron is the same company as Burley wood stoves and they are the most efficient wood stoves in the world of their type (excluding pellet types)

There is another form of solar water heating which can also work at night so more useful. It's just a air source heat pump (air to water) but with a massive collector plate so it can work with any warmer air.

The chap in the video is in Scotland and it works at a temperature of 3 deg in his case. I came across the company but being based in Essex I am always extremely cautious of the get rich quick brigade of Essex (TOWIE fan I am not!) Other companies are now also retailing.

If you were inclined to DIY, you could try the UK company Navitron who can supply everything to do with 'green' energy. I believe they will deliver to France as well.