Shamima Begum

blimey - someone needs to go to specsavers. Airport security isn’t as tight as we hoped - even with a very high security status.

Almost certainly she had whatever passport she travelled to Turkey with originally confiscated.

That, I’m guessing, left her with the catch-22 situation that she had no passport to get out of Syria but needed to do so in order to get to a British consulate to get some travel papers.

She is now completely stuck.

At last some good news.

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If you are of the mindset that she should be left to rot in Syria then yes, I suppose so.

I’m more in the “it’s complicated” camp.

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It seems that the whole dreadful complicated shambles of Middle Eastern politicking, war-mongering, and imperial deceit going back scores of years from the post-war dumping of the “Jewish Problem” on Palestine, through the Suez scandal, to the invasion of Iraq - all this has landed on the foolish head of the child of immigrant parents in Bethnal Green.

She has been and continues to be the political plaything of Daesh and some point-scoring virtue-signalling British politicians like the Home Secretary.

At worst she is a foolish, reckless and confused young woman, child of immigrant folk in East London, culturally confused by growing up in a traditional Bangladeshi home, possibly very conflicted by competing desires and impulses, inevitably pulled in different directions, and wedded to her mobile phone and its seductive images.

Then she ends up in an alien land, meets a young man, a stranger, possibly the first man in her life apart from her family members or a teacher, who provides some shelter, protection and affection, and sees her as a person in her own right.

She becomes pregnant in a war-zone, has to “grow up” and begin to find herself beset by famine, disease, fear, anxiety and language difficulties. Then her whole life is given world-wide notoriety on the basis of a ten-minute TV interview by a story-seeking journalist, and faces condemnation as a terrorist who can bring mayhem and disaster to a defenceless UK.

Some proper perspective is called for, little seems likely to be forthcoming IMO. Paul’s offers some hope.

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You make it sound like two starry-eyed teenagers, not a Dutch convert to Islam, gone to fight for IS and his assigned bride. Is there any evidence that he treated her as a person in her own right? Or showed her any true affection?

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I think she said (somewhere) that she asked to have an English speaker for a husband… and a Dutchman was assigned to that role. :thinking:

whatever the ins and outs… opinion is bound to be divided.

She could, perhaps, start again with her husband… once he is back in Holland… albeit he will be in jail probably for a while… but they have a son…

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She said she could not have found a man like him in her homeland. What evidence do you expect me to produce, Paul? I am the father of four daughters, not a stranger to how young women feel and think as they grow into adulthood.

Lots of young adults are attacted to fervently expressed and campaigning religions, and to liberation movements, without knowing much about the nitty-gritty: young adults have strong but weakly-grounded ideals, it’s a universal phenomenon. Any merit in that assertion?

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Stella, a wise, compassionate and (without being patronising or sexist, I hope) a very womanly comment on a very human tragedy. Shakespeare would do credit to it!

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It was something of a rhetorical question Peter, I don’t expect you to hack her phone and produce a litany of loving text messages.

As I understand it he is a Dutch convert to Islam who went to fight for IS, it sounds more like she was part of his reward for doing so - hardly free love.

Also as I understand it, he has surrendered to a group of Syrian fighters so it’s not clear whether he is around or whether she can rejoin him or whether he could get her to the Netherlands. Not forgetting that she has no travel papers to get out of Syria.

The Dutch are famously tolerant and might be willing to throw her a lifeline. I wouldn’t hold my breath though.

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In times of war love has to be seized where it can be found, Paul. It may be brief and tragic but it is not for us to question its validity, its worth or its strength. Nor is it for us to concern ourselves with how free it is under the circumstances in which those two contracted with each other, and their children, two of whom died in infancy, are their bond.

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I did say “possibly”, Paul. It was conjecture, I agree, but not- I think - an unreasonable one or less reasonable than some other spittle-flecked ones (not yours, I hasten to add) :grinning:

Noble thoughts as usual Peter :slight_smile:

Just thinking practically

This place is from a bangladesh property portal
https://www.lamudi.com.bd/3100-sq-ft-5-bedroom-duplex-house-with-land-for-sale-in-bhulta-27826-23.html - seems to be around £78k - lawyers are going to cost a few coins for all concerned. Maybe there’s a settlement to be found.

:thinking: David… I don’t really think they need anything so grand… servants quarters and all that jazz… £78,000 is way, way over the top anyway . :zipper_mouth_face:

If they are (perhaps) to be provided with a modest home, it needs to be one they can afford to run, in a situation/place where they can work to support themselves in some way… :thinking:

You are probably right, there seems to be a problem/ opportunity statement somewhere here. Her problem is as has been discussed here already. There exists an opportunity for her story to be told. Maybe serialised in The Times? It’s clearly not a bed time story or endorsement but there will no doubt be interest from some in knowing why and what etc.

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Well if she’s up for selling it to The Mail and enduring the public virtual online stoning that will result, then she’s liable to be paid a fortune.

Mind you, she’d have to wear the usual Mail issue regulation colourful frock and high heels for the photoshoot…

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A very weak argument IMHO.
The situation is not unlike those who are currently claiming Irish citizenship (in order to retain their EU rights/entitlements) and have themselves never lived in the RoI. They can do so because of birth rights - just as Begum can because of her mother’s Bangladeshi citizenship.

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Mmm… put like that… it does make sense.

Surely you mean," At best"

At worst, she is aiding or supporting terrorism

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