The Darlington nurses is the most obvious.
But how many examples would you want in order to agree that trans people should - because of their condition - have their own facilities, just like men and women? The argument against that seems to rest wholly on the proposition that there is no difference between trans women and women.
Well, Iâve previously made that argument anyway - or that the problem would be much less if culturally we were used to unisex facilities (cubicles private, obviously). The problem, I guess, is that only a very small number are trans so having to provide extra facilities for 0.5% of the population seems a bit onerous.
Thatâs not an example of a trans woman attacking a cis woman - itâs a case of cis women being uneasy that a trans woman was present, almost certainly without good cause.
Maybe weâre at cross purposes, because Iâm not talking about violence but about trans women using facilities for biological women.
I donât think you (as a man) can legitimately claim, in any case, biological women not wanting biological men sharing their facilities is
because that would lead you to argue for the abolotion of all single-sex communal facilities.
Maybe - but the excuse for the objection to trans women using facilities for cis women is founded in fear of violence, is it not?
did you intend to add something after the âisâ?
I can worry about tribalism and othering though which is what I think underlies transphobia.
I would have no objection to that to be honest.
I quoted you after the âisâ.
A group of both sexes undressing in the same room? You might well be happy with that, but we donât call that changing 
Oh, right - well I think I can say that if the problem is fear of violence it is without good cause because it has happened almost precisely zero times (in contrast to trans women suffering harassment and violence at he hands of cis women when using female facilities).
Ha Ha - no.
Been to numerous restaurants where the facilities are individual loos along one or both sides of a corridor - each loo being used as necessary by male, female, trans or whatever - but not at the same time (Iâm sure there are places that would be OK but they would be, ahem, a little specialised).
I had to smile at your comments. My wife and I have just returned from Butlinâs, that uber woke establishment, where we spent a few days with our grandchildren. The swimming-pool changing rooms are entirely communal. There are cubicles, of course, but I have yet to come across a public toilet without cubicles. I donât know if you live in France but if you do youâve probably been in a female or male toilet because the toilet you normally use was unavailable. I find it shocking that people who have changed gender now find that they canât use a public toilet.
Or found that it is basically the same space just with a urinal barely screened off from the rest of the facilities for the blokes and cubicles for whoever needs them.
Late 60s/early 70s a group of us travelled to Europe on business. We were in Holland, the meeting broke up and everyone went off for a comfort break. I was a bit startled to find after I emerged from my cubicle I was washing my hands alongside the large Dutchman with whom I had just been discussing projected chemicals consumption in the 1970s. After that, it all seemed quite normal (and sensible). Doing away with single sex facilities seems such a practical solution I canât believe what all the fuss is about.
As an aside - Iâm watching âTransparentâ on Prime - which really brings home how tough it can be for those who are transgender.
Itâs an English speaking cultural thing, even stronger in the US than UK. Many women seem to feel uncomfortable managing bodily functions with men in proximity, even if they have their own cubicle. Other races donât have the same taboos and sensibilities.
A good (male) friend worked in Sweden for a while, and found it more than a little uncomfy to be expected to disrobe and share a sauna with his female boss and other work colleagues.
The UK has made a clear choice to enshrine the rights of the party who may be upset or offended by things others do around them, even if innocent. This is now in law, and employers have been required to provide training on what may be considered sexual harassment due to these changes.
Donât get personal Ally, and donât make silly comments like that. OK?
Please post proof that Ireland has adopted self identification. as Scotland did âScotlandâs self-identification legislation refers to the failed Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill that aimed to allow individuals to change their legal sex through a self-declaration process, lowering the application age to 16 and removing the requirement for a medical diagnosis.â
I read the Irish Times everyday. but maybe I missed it. I doubt it would have passed without a reaction from the virulent Catholic crew.
The situation I described about my retired psychiatrist witnessed happened in Ireland BTW.
I totally support them. What I donât support is them undermining the modest progress we have made on womenâs rights, who are +/- 50% of the population. Plus I think there is a vicious, aggressive âpro transâ online cohort who possibly/probably have nothing to actually do with the issue, but want a fight, with Rowling, Lineham, etc.
I also think the Harry Potter stars need to get back in their box. Playing school kids in some fantasy movies doesnât give you any insight into the realities of life, in fact the exact opposite.
I was chatting with my daughter a couple of days ago and we were laughing because of the number of people, inside and outside the hospital think sheâs a nurse. Girls are nurses and boys are doctors⌠even toys you see in shops follow that stereotype (I wrote to one manufacturer on their sexist doctor and nurse set, might have been Playmobile, but got no response 
)
My to-be SIL did an MBA in Insead six or seven years ago and my daughter took a year out to live in Fontainebleau with him (they has a ball 
). At the farewell dinner the wife of an American who was accompanying her husband who was also doing an MBA, asked her what she was going to do now. She replied she would go back to working in the hospital. The wife announced to the whole table âhey weâve a nurse hereâ. This just pisses me off, putting women in boxes, and it was another woman that did it.
We still have a long way to go with womenâs equality, I totally support the ½ percent, but not them taking up disproportionate amount of time and effort.
Actually I disagree, most of the current wave of transphobia originated in RW America and was greatly blown up through comparatively insignificant issues about who could use which toilets and eventually became a dominant issue in the US election campaign.
You donât agree with Rowlingâs position, but Iâd argue that her arguments differ significantly from those of RW transphobes.
Ireland does have self-identification legislation. The Gender Recognition Act 2015 allows people aged 18 and over to change their legal gender on official documents simply by self-declaration, without needing medical intervention or psychiatric approval. For 16â17-year-olds, a court order and parental consent are required; younger children are not currently eligible.
It took me less than a minute to find that and much more on Irelandâs gender debate.
Not looked at the nuance - what are the differences.
As far as I understand, and admittedly this is not one of my specialist subjects, emphasis is on the significant differences between biologically determined sex and culturally determined gender, rather than on washrooms and an attack on so-called âliberal valuesâ.
Well done, youâre a Google guru But I note it was 16 in the Scottish legislation not 18. Anyway, I think itâs bolox. Goodness knows what pixihead TDs voted that through. It took thirty years to get condoms legalised and now theyâve lost the run of themselves trying to be politically correct.
Google? So yesterday.
16 is the age of consent in Scotland.
Anyway, youâre welcome.
Your magnanimity is duly noted.
The UK hysteria is entirely coming from the US religious right who are pumping money into these fake rights organisations. Take the LGB alliance for example, it hid for years any details about itself until an FOI request inadvertently revealed that the address it had been communicating with the then Tory Government was 55 Tufton Street, the infamous home of the infamous dark money right wing think tanks that have been so insidious in the UK the last 15 odd years. All this stuff has been centrally coordinated and is coming from the exact people who are doing it in the US. In years to come it will become known as a horrific scandal, although I suspect that sadly with so many disgraceful scandals at the moment it wonât, even in future and with hindsight, be taken quite as seriously as it should be. People canât see that theyâre being sold a bill of goods, but sadly theyâll realise eventually. Itâs not often my profession is something to be thankful for, but I am deeply thankful there are some brilliant law firms and advocacy organisations out there fighting back and doing so against the tide of a seemingly never ending supply of money from who knows where.
The irony is of course that the entire aim is to strip rights from women, not protect them. Weâve seen how they work in the US; stage 1 is trans people, stage 2 is the wider LGBT community, stage 3 is women. The right in the UK are already muttering about restricting abortion rights and contraception, theyâre complaining about maternity/ paternity leave, itâs a tougher job than in the US as thank goodness the evangelical church isnât as strong, but theyâre on stage 1, and starting the work on stage 2, so there will be an attempt at stage 3 eventually, while these frauds shouting about womenâs rights allow women to suffer. Theyâll all be dead by the time the real damage starts though so it wonât affect them, as theyâre probably well aware.