We have not gone for a bank AV, but one that is independant of a bank, and I recall (we opened it a long time back) the charges fell away after the 8th year. Still not stunning, but bearable return. .
I partially agree…I have no particular objection to high charges for AV asset managers, as quality research, compliance with regs, continuous monitoring and rebalancing of portfolios costs real money. I do not feel I have the necessary markets/investing expertise, nor have any wish to spend the proper time required to do the constant research and monitoring myself necessary to properly run a portfolio. I will therefore happily pay professionals for all that. What I really do object to is poor performance + high charges. I suspect that many bank AVs will be prone to the latter, and just hope that superior performance outweighs the charges for others.
The online fintech AV option we’ve gone for in recent years is quite interesting in that - on a fully managed basis - they invest wholly in Exchange Traded Funds (ETFs) ie global funds that match indicies such as the S&P, Nikkei etc. They are periodically rebalanced by a (presumably fairly sophisticated) algorithm…Costs are really low, and the overall return is healthy.
I think if we’d been in the UK all these years I would have just bunged some money in a low-fee Vanguard tracker every month, regardless of what was happening in the markets.
Perhaps these products are readily available in France, too, but people don’t talk about them as much? I confess I’ve been very lazy and let my bad experience with the banks put me off AV in general. Which is pretty stupid on my part.
The problem now is that - even if we decide after retirement that we’re staying in France permanently, which is a big IF - it would no longer be a question of drip feeding money into the fund every month, where you have time on your side and can take the rough with the smooth.
We’d be taking a large amount of savings and investing it. Which is a lot more scary because any downturn in the market could see our savings plummet.
Am assuming 60 is too old to start the drip feeding strategy?
Hello George, thank you for your info. My wife had a relatively small bank AV which the proceeds of which. have just been placed into my account. Very poor return. Early days yet to make any more investments. I await the Notaire’s ideas re succession.
Ian
We updated our Wills and intially went for a UK one but the UK solicitor did say there was a great deal of doubt about ‘universality’ of the concept with many solicitors and this was prior to 2021. The Will was written under UK ‘rules’. Since then we’ve drawn up a French Will to cover our French assets. So we now have two Wills. The French Notaire was very impressed with the UK Will but said the 2 Will solution was the best course especially as we are a ‘reconstituted’ family - incidentally the French Will was very much cheaper than the UK one.
Ha! Direct opposite to our notaire!
Hello Tim, the only problem with that scenario for me is that I have no assets in the UK., apart from a building society current account and a small amount in a savings account. . My Notaire did enquire if I have a UK solicitor, he said he may have to source one, I don’t know why. Everything is still up in the air…regards, Ian
Hi Jane , they all ( Notaires ) have a different take reading all my replies.
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I’m in exactly the same position. I thought a UK Will would accomplish all I wanted but ( and I forgot to mention this) my UK solicitor suggested that I should also enquire about a French Will. I didn’t do it immediately but when I did find a notaire he was of exactly the same opinion. It’s a tricky decision and I guess we’ll only find out if the ‘experts’ were right when I pop my clogs .
I wish I had adopted my wife’s children, but that boat has sailed. They are in their fifties now.
Yes, the same as you, it will only be when I pop off.
Ian
Sorry if this has been thrashed out in previous chats but can I just confirm whether, regardless of which country’s law is applied to decide who gets what, French inheritance tax will apply to the entire estate, including any assets in, say, the UK?
So - for example - if I was widowed and left everything to my niece and nephew, they would have to stump up - within 6 months of my death - between 50% and 60% of the total value of the estate, less their meagre allowances?
Fine if the estate is mostly in cash. But not so fine if it consists mainly of bricks-and-mortar that would have to be sold.
That’s my understanding of how it works but perhaps I’m wrong.
Our notaire told us (as well as some other stuff I wasn’t totally sure about 
) that non-french assets are not included in French inheritance calculations.
Bank accounts of the deceased are if they are in the UK. An elderly friend of mine from our old commune lost her husband and after the sucession was done here in France, she got caught for thousands of euros in tax from his very lucrative UKbank account where he had stashed money from the sale of a UK property. Obviously she had had to declare all his worldly assets/income etc. Be careful.
So UK bank accounts are subject to French inheritance tax.
But what about real estate located in the UK?
My main concern is liquidity. At least with bank accounts, the inheritance tax bill could be paid out of the cash (assuming there was enough to cover the total liability).
When you pay tax in France as a resident it applies globally. That is why , on your tax return you complete here you declare any bank accounts for example in the UK. I think, therefore , that applies to your estate.
Well, given the number of Brits living in France who for whatever reason keep a house or flat back in the UK, this is surely something we need to clarify.
The tax implications are potentially massive, especially when you consider house prices in much of the UK.
Under the uk fr tax treaty, real estate/fixed assets fall under the local tax law.
That is why the French holiday homes of uk residents are covered by French succession law. And vice versa.
And why uk rental income is taxable in uk regardless of residency, and vice versa.
I do not think it is a grey area at all.
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I am not 100% certain but the tax authorities in France demand all assets globally are declared.
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This is from notaires.fr
Si le défunt ou le donateur est domicilié en France, tous les biens transmis sont imposables en France, qu’ils soient situés en France ou hors de France et que les héritiers donataires ou légataires soient domiciliés fiscalement en France ou pas (750 ter, 1° du CGI). Dans ce cas, le montant des droits de mutation acquittés hors de France est déductible de l’impôt dû en France.
So the question perhaps ends up in the worms nest of domicile? I think I am French resident, but still have UK domicile as I am not a non -dom.
When we prepared our current will we made as much provisions as we could via Assurance Vie for payment of inheritance tax on UK property. But I can’t remember whether it was for 40 % UK tax or 60% French tax.
It is one I will add to my current list of questions to solicitor.
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I imagine this could create a lot of stress for the heirs.
At least in the UK the tax is already paid (by the executor) by the time the heir receives their inheritance. And if it takes ages for the executor to sell the property, so be it. HMRC waits.
But in the meantime the French taxman would be clamouring for his share. To be paid within 6 months of the death. And from what I hear they’re not flexible.
We don’t have kids and don’t much care what happens to our stuff after death but I do wonder why anyone with adult non-French-speaking kids and substantial real estate in the UK would ever become tax resident in France.
Unless of course they also have pots of cash or life insurance that the heirs can use to keep the French taxman happy.