Will this be the thread for the 2022 returns, similar to the great thread that @graham so kindly did last year?
If so, I’d like to pose a frontalier question - last year I agreed a calculation method with the France tax inspector for the month of UK salary to declare in France as worldwide income. Very happy with the deductions that he allowed.
The one deduction I totally missed was that 10% of gross salary is allowed as a deduction… does anyone know how this is applied? - e.g. is it an auto calculation from the amount one declares in the foreign income box on the 2042? Like pensions. Or do some people deduct it at the outset before putting in the amount in the 2042. I haven’t actually checked my last years tax calc yet, so sorry if the answer lies there…
The 10% is automatically done by the French Tax Folk when they are working through your/my/our income figures…
For the elderly… there is also an “old age” allowance which is automatically given where applicable…
ooops… seems it’s not just me who makes a mess of things trying to do the on-line declaration. I did take a peek on Thursday… but this botch-up wasn’t my fault… not this time…
It should be OK to get back into the Site…
i have just tried to do my 1st tax declaration online, but received this warning,
Selon nos informations, vous déclarez pour la première fois. Pour cette raison, vous ne pouvez pas déclarer en ligne cette année. Vous devez déposer une déclaration de revenus au format papier auprès de votre Centre des Finances Publiques.
Vous pourrez déclarer vos revenus en ligne à compter de l’année prochaine.
La direction générale des finances publiques
The question I have is does the paper return get sent to me directly from impots .Or do i have to apply for the tax return locally. I am worried that I may end up breaching the time frame required to fill in and return the forms.
@digitracker I’ve by coincidence received the same “warning” today. I immediately wrote to the Service des Impots and have already received a reply, which is impressive. They apologised that they have themselves only just learned that this year, first time filers cannot file on line (despite the established online guidance that this is the expected route for first time filers!). The SIP advised that very shortly the forms will be available online to download (not yet, as I’ve already tried). They added that you need to print them off, sign, date, add an RIB and proof of ID and send to them,
That brilliant information, so basically I will keep an eye out online and print off my tax return, thats great. Thanks for your valuable imput.
We collected ours from the tax office - the inspector handed us them, and photocopied all our details. It was very close, so not out of our way, the advantage was we had someone to phone and e-mail to confirm numbers and boxes.
I’ve now reviewed the calc and yes indeed see it was applied - in fact it seems there is a minimum deduction - 440 odd euros for salary and 390 for pension - so more than 10% with low amounts
I posted a question somewhere about despite declaring interest on the france tax return, I had nothing to pay. I recall replies suggested the amount might be too low to tax, though I cannot find my post or responses anywhere - hopefully it’s not an imaginative figment.
Anyway on reviewing my return and a few impot bulletins, I think I’ve cracked it - and curiously the solution seems to be the minimum deductions.
My declaration was low - only one month of income, so no tax. The 390 euros deduction on the pension taxable in france was used to offset the 30 odd euros tax on interest - it appeared as a tax credit. This according to the tax bulletins seems to be a function of the calculation of the effective rate - deductions are applied after the tax calculation at the effective rate, so as my tax calculation was zero, the 390 euro deduction appeared as a tax credit?
Amazing - I wonder if the unused credit is carried forward!
I’m looking at the back page of my Avis d’impôt établi en 2021 which I printed off last year.
Details de revenu: Déclar 1
Pensions, retraites, rentes = xxxxx
Abattement spécial de 10% = yyyy
blah blah Net = zzzz
This is the 10% I am talking about… why not have a look at the back of your Avis…
yup, thats the one - appeared as a tax credit afterwards. Haven’t got my doc on this machine I’m using - will post the details from the other machine tomorrow.
Here’s the details, had to post as an edit as you can’t post three in a row evidently:
In the hope that others have a similar return, I’ve made a table of my pdf return (pasted as a picture). I declared UK salary, France taxable pension and interest - lets say 215 interest for example. Salary and pension total well within the 0% band. Interest calculations exactly correct (with the S1) but at the end - no tax to pay - so I’m asking for a check - did the 394 pension deduction make the tax credit?
Also included are the fields from the declaration document - one wierd thing, box 8TK Foreign income with tax credit = French tax equalled both pension + salary - I would have thought only the UK salary would have a tax credit? But the other boxes look right…?
Obviously the paper form would have been input manually by someone into the system.
Thoughts gratefully received - thanks.
fields from the declaration document -
1AF French CI=I salaries and salaries of non-residents - Declarant 1: YYYY
Pensions, retirements, annuities
1AM Other pensions from foreign sources - Declarant 1: XXXX
Income from movable capital (2042 and 2042C)
2TR Fixed income investment products without deduction: 215
8TK Foreign income with tax credit = French tax: this equalled pension + salary
8SH Affiliation social security scheme EEA or Switzerland - Declarant 1 (tick): 1
8TV Retirement and disability pensions subject to CSG at the rate of 8.3%: this equalled pension + the 215 interest
also, this year I’m going for the ‘alimony’ deduction - for my (other) daughter who is at Uni training as a mental health nurse FYI.
I mentioned it to my inspector last year and will be sending him the details / proof / confirmation of boxes request shortly.
I remember some SFR’s were interested so if still so, feel free to get in touch?
The phrase Abattement spécial de 10% really confused me as at 390 euro it was much higher than 10% - that’s when I researched and found there were minimum abattemements…
ps it’s 400 euro for this year.
I’m getting like the amazing @Stella in that all my neighbours who arrived here more recently than I did seem to treat me as first point of contact on just about everything I can/will certainly point them to the impots people but I just wondered if anyone here could give me an answer given I imagine they get more busy when the site opens for declarations.
One neighbour is declaring for the first time and cashed in a U.K. pension after they arrived. It was an extra, only worth couple of thousand which is why they did it I think. They didn’t earn in 2021 as they had just arrived and lived off savings, so could they claim this couple of thousand as part of their basic income tax allowance (10,225€ I think this year?) and so pay no tax on it, or must they pay 7.5% on it even if they’ve had no other income? It seems rather churlish having to pay if that is their only income and the allowance exists but I wasn’t certain whether it was a hard and fast rule that all lump sums must pay 7.5% and my knowledge of pensions is pretty minimal at this point!
You nearly made me choke on my morning cuppa… “churlish”…
From personal experience … all bits of income need to be declared in their correct slots … and they will attract whatever taxes/charges are applicable (if any).
A lifetime ago (it seems now…) we were charged 73€ on a net rental income of 811€… not churlish… just correct collection of the appropriate “contribution”…
With no other Income, we were below the Taxable Threshold, but not exempt from other stuff…
I suggest your neighbour simply puts the lump-sum in the correct spot… and someone will doubtless come forward and say just where that is… if not he/she can ask the Tax Office.
@graham has put up some very useful information on the Tax Help thread … you might like to check it through…
I have been known to do much worse to people first thing in the morning, although the classic thing in entertainment law is 16.59 on a Friday when sending emails that will make people choke on their cuppa, just early enough that the recipient receives it and it ruins their weekend, but late enough that you can switch your Out of Office on and ignore their replies for a couple of days
In S Africa that critical time on a Friday would have to be around 11.50 am…
The abattements are complicated and various. The best place to find how they are worked out (along with the overall tax) is to work through the official calculation in the Brochure Pratique which tax officers have on their desks to consult.
With the help of the tax assessments for the previous years and the working sheets (see below), it is possible to create a spreadsheet to allow you to check your tax and revenu fiscal de référence (RFR).
I’ve had a spreadsheet for my (fairly simple pensions/investments) tax for the last few years. It has just required a minor updating as the figures change from year-to-year.
The Brochure Pratique also has copies of the tax forms and explanatory notes.
For 2022 page 359 onwards of the Brochure Pratique has the calculation of abattements and page 369 onwards has working sheets which allow you to do the calculation manually
Many thanks Elsie, I had the 2021 guide and you have very helpfully signposted the abattements at the end - I will scrutinise the 2022 update!
I haven’t yet identified why the pension abbattement is showing up as a Crédit d’impôt sur rev. étrangers, (though the total reduction does state zero) nor indeed why both France taxable pension and UK salary are included in box 8TK ‘Foreign income with tax credit = French tax’. Maybe the french taxable pension has been put down as non-taxable by mistake though the pension is declared in box 1AM Other pensions from foreign sources.
I have though from your signposting identified under DÉCOTE page 361 that if the tax is less than 1 745 € single or 2 888 married then a reduction is calculated, and that may explain my zero amount, though it does state it’s for’scale’ income and mine was interest - the guide does state it includes '(y compris l’impôt relatif aux revenus et plus-values imposés selon un système de quotient) - but that doesn’t look like interest?