Yup - you can either send in a manual list (details of what's required on my post yesterday) with a paper return or, simply attach one form 3916 for each account along with your on-line return.
So, to be clear Michael, you have indeed been fined for non-declaration of the accounts. This could be viewed by the fisc as concealment. Quite a sting! :-(
That's awful Michael. We've just been whacked with a huge backdated payment from 2012 as the tax office miscalculated our mortgage interest relief. Are they at least letting you pay in instalments?
I am Pat Wilson's friend who faces the fine. In view of some people's misunderstanding of the situation may I just clarify the position.
We are not being fined for concealing our overseas accounts. The tax office has known about these since our arrival. We are not being fined for tax avoidance or for attempting to avoid tax on our overseas accounts. We have declared all our income and have paid our tax in full. We are being fined for failing to send in a list of our overseas accounts.
My purpose is not to exonerate us, although previous experience suggests that a reasonable authority would ask for missing papers rather than wait for two years before imposing a 6000 euro fine, but to warn other people to make sure that they read the small print and send all required documents.
Stuart - as a French resident, declaring interest / income from accounts held anywhere in the world is one one thing - declaring their actual existence is completely another thing. You need to do both. (Same goes for Assurance Vie contracts help outside France.
Bit odd that you ended up paying tax on tax! Double taxation treaties intra-EU countries mean that the tax rights each country claims based on it's domestic laws, are divided over the same income and gains. What you have paid in one country generally makes you eligible for at least a tax credit in the other.
Even though you may not be liable for any tax in your country of residence (i.e. on overseas earnings) - the tax authorities will add the income and gains to your taxable income total - which may of course increase your nominal rate of taxation.
Tim, yes it certainly seems odd doesn't it, those that we can quite reasonably expect to have made fortunes in 'bandit territory' seem to still be able to move massive amounts of money around quite easily.
Call me an old cynic but I still believe Govts find it far easier to hit the small guy than these characters - I wonder why?
Or do I? Not really.
But there is a double taxation treaty in place and you should be able to claim one or the other back.
At the very least you should be able to setup the UK account as Non-Res (heck seems all the Russians do so!)
I hold my hands up and confess to have slightly over-reacted. But I was trying to make the point that, just because you don't like the present government, it doesn't mean that they benefit personally from taxation.
I don't know the full details of the case that started this discussion, but assume that the fines were in some way related to the amounts of money on deposit. If you have large sums of money on deposit, it is only reasonable that the French Government should want to know where it came from and would also wonder why you had chosen to keep it in an account that didn't pay interest. Maybe they were not entirely satisfied with the explanation.
Mike,
you obviously have far greater faith than me in the Government's ability to spend wisely and in the public interest. Use of private jet for family to attend a football finall? The rather curiously entangled financial deal with India over Fighter jets which would seem to suggest the French taxpayer is in fact paying for the deal? How about assorted punch-ups in Africa costing French and other lives - to what end? Offices and payments and perks for assorted concubines?
You presumably also agree with the Socialist economic principle that Wealth is multiplied by dividing it?
That taxing the creators of wealth to the hilt is something other than a disincentive?
Not just in France but all over. Yes, in principle you are correct, but the wild assumption that all tax revenues are spent wisely for the public good is overly optimistic.
We will have to disagree then. Perhaps I was more aware as I had to declare accounts closed in Germany during 2014 as well as those open in the UK but from reading advice on the subject nothing could have been clearer.
I also find it amusing that so many posters see mistakes over tax declarations as honest mistakes whereas anyone who gains, whether accidently or not, through the benefits system is a benefits cheat. My experience makes me have more sympathy with many who are at the mercy of the benefits of the benefits system than those who are less than truthful with tax returns.
Stuart - quite obviously you're computer literate so why on earth don't you simply file your returns on-line? It won't be long until that will be the only option in any case, so - you may as well get used to using the on-line system.
The beauty of declaring on-line is that sections completed on 'additional' forms - e.g. like the 2047, can automatically be copied into the correct section on the main 2042 - job done. In fact, the on-line system really does walk you through accurate completion, declaration and any relevant penalties.
'How are we supposed to know?' - like anything from childhood onwards, you ask, you research, you learn, you understand - you find out! Don't wait around for someone to come knocking on your door with a 'help guide' - you'll have a long wait :-) It takes time and effort but in the end, you'll sleep better!
Of course people make honest mistakes but, as we all know, ignorance of the law is no defence.
Pat, as far as I am aware there is just one standard French Tax Return Document, but this year a second one appeared printed in brown as opposed to the blue one. SWMBO takes care of the paperwork in the house, but the brown one was to cover 'foreign' revenues - but as this was also covered in the blue form, as ever it was easy to get confused.
As we must all have noticed the Hollande Govt has been tinkering around with everything from new Labour Laws to whatever new potential tax opportunities they can find. God knows how businesses find the time to work it all out as it seems to change almost daily.
Almost certainly this will or could affect the interpretation by different tax offices, and makes it difficult to be 'honest' when the posts are continually moving.
And let me guess what they do about the likes of Amazon, Starbucks and Google.
Sorry, with Jane on this. I don't think they were "tax dodgers" and to be honest it isn't to provide social care but to pay all the bloody fonctionnaires who retire on huge pensions.
Iām with you on this Mike. I find it impossible to believe that anyone filling in a French tax return did not know that they had to fill in a form 3916 for each foreign bank account, it was one of the first requirements that came to my notice. The rules are there for a reason and those who do not comply risk a fine. The punishment fits the crime. I hope the Facebook message was posted before the last date for tax forms to be returned to allow his friends to benefit from his experience.
That was to Simon Oliver btw!
Ha ha ha! Simon - thank you so much for that. Your posts always make me chortle.
LOL - I guess that's one view - it makes you sound vaguely envious / jealous Simon! Anyway - as Eleanor Roosevelt once said 'No one can make you feel inferior without your consent'
It was your remark about people havings funds sloshing around as opposed to being used for everyday living that makes honest people sound criminal.
There are perfectly legal reasonsto have accounts in other countries and still be a little person.
I feel that these horrendous fines to which Pat was subject as attacking little people.
As usual here in France we find tales of tax law being applied differently.