Tempo BLUE today 03/03/2024, RED tomorrow 04/03/2024 😱

Looking forward to that :roll_eyes:

Weird. I’ve just looked in Frogweather for weather for Paris in the next week. As Paris weather seems to drive the choice of Jours Rouges.

Paris weather is showing as milder and warmer than us. And we won’t be cold.

Does this mean that EDF has access to the forecasted weather till the end of March, and that they’ve decided to throw in the towel and use up their remaining allocation of Jours Rouges willy-nilly, because it won’t be cold?

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That’s exactly the consensus view in our household, for what it’s worth…

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We’ve moved from the standard EDF tariff to Tempo as of today. As a consequence, EDF has reduced our monthly payments by €10 :partying_face:.
Although we are an all electric house, we have GSHP underfloor heating which we will put on between 11pm and 5am on red days. It currently starts at 6am and we don’t normally have it on for more than 6 hours per day anyway, unless it’s very cold outside. The underfloor heating acts like a big thermal battery anyway which keeps the house warm all day. As for other things, it will be mainly kettle for drinks, food, fridge freezer and TV that will use electricity during the day, all else can be shifted to off peak hours. I have 4.1Kw of solar that may help during peak hours with an Elios4you to monitor my usage, so lets see how it goes. :crossed_fingers:

Edit: We do so well anyway saving electricity that when we switched to Tempo on the phone, they originally wanted to set out monthly payments to 2.5 times what we eventually settled on, because that’s apparently what the typical household of our size uses.

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Just today 16th February, EDF for the first time informs me they’re increasing their rates. As from 1st February more than 2 weeks ago.

Seriously, are they allowed to notify price increases to consumers retroactively?

Fresh from EDF’s failure to provide me the SMS alert they promise to send, the day before each Jour Rouge , their failure which is still continung despite my requests since Novrmber, to them to fix it and provide what they promise, I’m going to check their contract. As I find it unfair that the first notice they send me of their tariff increase isn’t till 16 days after they say it will be applicable, surely this is unfair treatment of consumers?

I have also done some analysis of the increases, which I will put in a post following, and they’ve been quite sneaky.

The % increases are always announced in the press, but I agree, there is no official notification ahead of it happening.

I’m not sure what you mean.

For 9kVA Tempo there was a 0,024€ increase per kWh almost across the board (0,023€ for red HP) & the monthly standing charge went up 0,16€.

I’ve posted this many times before but all EDF’s Tarif Bleu rates can be found here. It’s worth bookmarking as well as keeping a PDF copy so that you can see changes next time around.

EDF Tempo price increases analysis:

Conclusion reached : Basically, EDF is determined to frustrate any efforts by consumers, to save money by using less electricity.

You can use less electricity, but EDF will ensure that even if you do, it will still cost you more.

How did I conclude this?

I analysed the % increase of each tariff. Non-peak, vs Peak fot each of Blue, White and Red days.

Two key things seen :

  1. Basically all the Non-Peak rates have.swingeing increases. Each of the “Non-Peak” rates is increased by a much higher % than the Peak rate is for the same type(colour) of day. This is the same for each of Blue, White, and Red days.

  2. Additionally, the biggest increase in Peak rate, by far, is on Blue days. Blue days are the majority of the year. They are days when the electricity supply is not stressed. And yet, EDF is increasing the Peak tariff on the most unstressed days, the majority of days of the year by at least 17.5% for Peak, and an even higher % increase 23% for Non-Peak on Blue Days…

Blue Days : 17.5% on Blue Days = increasing Peak by 1/6th).
Non-peak increase on Blue days is even worse, at 23%.
Out of all of them, Non-Peak on Blue days, the last place left in the year to hide if you want to reduce your electricity costs, is the tariff they’ve increased the most, by 23% (almost 1/4 more).

White Days: On some-stress-but-not-extreme-stress days, ie White Days, EDF is increasing Peak cost by just under 15%. (So nearer to 1/7th more).
White Non-Peak cost is increasing by more : 19.26% (1/5th more).

Red Days : Red days are very few in the year, currently only 22, and the point of Tempo is to discourage electricity use on them particularly in Peak hours. After the swingeing increase to Peak tariff on Red days in the last round of price increases only about 6 months ago, EDF users have clearly learned their lessons too well :

The Peak increase for Red days is only 3.3%.
The Non-Peak increase on Red Days on the other hand, is 18.07%.

So nowhere to hide on Red days, to try to reduce your costs. Remember it’s technically possible to have 5 Red Days one after the other Monday-Friday with no gap.

But don’t think the recommended strategy of moving your electricity usage to Non-Peak on Red days will work as well as it did : EDF has now increased Non-Peak on Red days by 18.07%. So on Red days, as there’s nowhere to hide if you need to use electricity now they’ve hoisted Red Non-Peak tariff by close to 1/5th more. Even if you’re careful and use less or move the time you use electricity, it looks like you’ll end up paying more actual money for those days still, to EDF.

Conclusion

So between Non-Peak periods being the ones targeted on all types(colours) of day for the biggest increases, and the highest total increase in tariff being Blue days even Non-Peak (in other words, most of the year), EDF is determined that you can use less electricity, and you can ensure to use it at Non-Peak times on any of Blue, White, or Red days. But despite these efforts EDF is determined that even doing these things the total of your payments to them will increase.

Detail :

Blue Non-Peak increase : 23% . Peak increase 17.5%
White Non-Peak increase : 19.26%. Peak increase 14.5%
Red Non-Peak increase : 18.07% . Peak increase 3.3%

So no day of the year to hide from swingeing increases
And no time of the day to hide from the same. EDF wants 20% more money from you, at a minimum, no matter what you do.

Payday for EDF.

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The use of electricity in France has dropped dramatically in the last few years even lower usage than in 2008 there are many factors to take into consideration but the most worrying is that the poorest people are not heating as they should be able to due to lower income and higher prices.
Links provided :wink: for PHD studies.

Interesting Wozza. These latest increases heavily targeting Non-Peak use even on Blue Days are only going to make it harder for poor families.

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@KarenLot - despite all the figures & percentages that you have diligently shown it’s worth noting that with the exception of HP Red periods ALL Tempo kWh prices are much lower than either Option Base Tarif or Option Heures Creuses rates. Also Tempo standing charges are now lower than Option Heures Creuses.

Therefore in order to still benefit from Tempo all I’ve got to do is avoid excessive consumption on the 22 x 16 hour periods per year that are Red HP.

I realise that this is a slightly different conversation than one about the rises in general (& at least we don’t pay UK unit prices!).

the increase was published in the News earlier this year… and as per the link below…

Tarifs énergie -Électricité : les tarifs augmentent en février ! | Service-Public.fr.

I knew you’d say that, @,Badger :slight_smile:

And whilst of course you are correct, what matters here is the relativities - the percentage changes the tariffs have increased by - and on which tariffs those percentage increases have been placed. This tells us EDF’s intentions (and not just EDF’s -but I’m not going there).

Your comments are about the absolutes - the actual tariffs - and I agree with them. Otherwise I wouldn’t be on Tempo.

But my comments are about the relativities - the movement in the tariffs - indicating the direction of travel. i.e. the decisions made, and the intentions.

2 different ways of looking at the same data.

Looking at the relativities, it’s impossible for low income families to do anything to avoid a price rise of about 20% minimum. Except switch off electricity at least 20% of the time more, than they were. There is literally nothing else they can do, to avoid paying more to EDF. 23% on Heures Creuses Bleu - it doesn’t get worse than this in terms of hitting low income families.

This is revealing, because a.different decision could have been made.

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Now I’m really going to bore anyone who’s still awake.

I have gone through EDF’s terms and conditions (CGV) in the past hour or two. Because I am gobsmacked that EDF seems to think it can give retroactive notice of new tariffs. They notified me today 16th February at 12.39, and say they will apply them from 16 days ago 1st February.

I have never in my life seen a contract that did not require a notice period prior to any significant change coming into effect. Particularly a tariff change to a consumer from a major dominant supplier.

I am shocked to discover thie following clause 6-3 is all the contract says on tariff changes:
6-3 Changement de tarif
Le tarif applicable au Contrat est susceptible
d’évoluer suite à une décision des pouvoirs publics.
[a missing sentence here]
Les modifications de tarifs sont applicables en
cours d’exécution du Contrat et font l’objet
d’une information générale.

6-3 with the missing sentence reinserted:

6-3 Changement de tarif
Le tarif applicable au Contrat est susceptible
d’évoluer suite à une décision des pouvoirs publics.

  • En cas de modification du tarif entre deux facturations, le relevé des consommations comporte simultanément des consommations payables à l’ancien tarif et au nouveau. Le montant facturé est alors calculé selon une répartition prorata temporis.*
    Les modifications de tarifs sont applicables en cours d’exécution du Contrat et font l’objet d’une information générale.

I thought at first the missing sentence in the middle was irrelevant. I thought it was a red herring to divert us from the absence of a commitment to inform us a minimum period ahead before any tariff change comes into effect.
As would be normal to see, but not seen, in the sentence that follows it.

Then I looked at it again with the original sentence re-inserted . As EDF only sent me formal notice of these new tariffs today 16th February, I am thinking of emailing them back referring to that sentence. Mentioning that as they only informed me of these tariff revisions today, I will only expect to see them applied on my facture for electricity I used from today 16th Fenruary, and from 1st February to today at the same tariffs as January.

@Stella I truly don’t read newspapers or watch TV. If I’m in a contract with someone I expect them to give me timely notice of changes directly.

Me emailing back to EDF, that I expect higher tariffs to apply only from the date they’ve informed me of them, doesn’t deal with the question of they should be obliged to give, say, 30 days’ notice of tariff changes. They do seem to think a 1 month notice of other changes is reasonable, however, elsewhere in the contract. As in
11. ÉVOLUTION DES CONDITIONS
GÉNÉRALES
En cas d’évolution, de nouvelles Conditions
Générales… * EDF informera le
Client des modifications …au moins un mois avant leur date d’entrée en vigueur * par voie postale ou par voie électronique conformément à la réglementation en vigueur.

I’m driven right now by 2 things here

  1. They still haven’t solved the problem of I am still not receiving the important SMS alerts for Jours Rouges, after repeated requests to them for 3 months
  2. I’m.still decompressing after confronting a would-be burglar at my home today and finding something to be pernickety about is helping :slight_smile:
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@KarenLot - Thanks for persisting with this. It seems to me that EDF are behaving very badly.

And let us not forget that the price rises in recent times have been offset to some degree by the Cheque Energie scheme, but I have yet to see any definitive statement about how that will evolve this year.

Only for, those that are eligible!

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TBH Brian I have a feeling this is a learning experience for me about French culture and different norms in consumer contracts, the power of the state, etc.

What is reasonable in consumer contracts and dealings in the UK, does not seem to apply in France in quite a few ways. I’m not even sure there is an overriding expectation of “reasonableness” in French law. I am thinking in France that if something is not written in a Loi then there’s nothing -not even reasonableness or fairness - that will make it happen.

I expect to get a bloody nose on this but for devilment, i think I will go back to EDF, toss “you can bill me the higher tariffs from the date you informed me” at them and see what they say.

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The reply will probably state
The increase in tariffs has been widely publicized in accordance with current practices and legislation etc and maybe in the JO

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Given that they are the ones who are most likely to have problems finding the cash to cover the price rises that seems entirely fair…

Consumers cannot be assumed to have access to particular media or sources even public. I currently have access to very little. If I’m in a contract with someone I expect to be informed directly by that provider proactively. The provisions in Clause 11 I also posted above prove that EDF knows perfectly well.what is reasonable in terms of informing their users.

PS What’s JO snd is someone required to peruse it daily?