Yes, the omelette example is perfect. The French friends I have moan about the same things I do (only more) - but how does the common man change years of government policy?
It's the bureaucrats who are to blame - they are all in their cosy offices waiting for their nice pension, so why would they want to change anything?
alimantary my Dear Milne .....see what I did there?.....not the Chili...
Bon jour, but please say 'chill out', chile (Chili rather than the country really) sounds like something after a strong Mexican dish that has already passed through your intestines!
Richard,
I can only point you back to whatothers have said - you buy doliprane in a pharmacy, that's what they sell and petrol in a petrol station, bread from a boulangerie and cigarettes from a tabac. Why on earth would anyone want to create the deserted (commercially) villages now found in the UK rather than keep the local fabric intact. You're obviously not aware of the continueing problems in rural areas - TF1 for the second or third year running have run a scheme trying to promote rural commerce and get people to reprendre village shops etc. local mairie often buy them and let them to shop keepers for a pitance in an attempt to keep some life in the village. As for doctors - some mairie have offered the surgery and accommodation for free but still can't keep a doctor in the village. France is a very different country to the UK, and thank God for that - I think the UK and its lifestyle is horrendous and for the record it now comes last out of pretty much all countries as a place to live ! If 99% of your bistro clients eat from 12 to 2 you employ your chef from 11h30 to 13h30 so come in at 13h45 and the chef's probably gone home. Are you going to try and earn a couple of euros more for the hassle of firing everything up again when for you lunchtime has finished and you want to be there to say goodbye to your regular clients - the ones that eat there all year round and keep you in business or desert them to cook a bloody omlette for a foreigner who's pissing you off coming in when everyone's finished!
All these things seem odd to you - have you ever thought what the uk is like for foreigners - went back a couple of years ago and spent the 10 days explaining why it was like that and not like in France and whilst doing so it made me realise that I'm now far more french than english and hate the way money seems to be the only theing that matters there. I'll happily turn down work to spend time with my family and have often turned round to my OH before taking a job on and said "ça vaut pas la peine, autrement il faudrait changer tout ce que l'on a planifié ce week-end..." I let the job go for a better life, not richer but better in other ways because richer doesn't necessarily mean better. And yes why not earn what's necessary and spend the rest of the time with family and friends and having a life instead of working? it's not just the taxation system although there are limits after which the tax threshold goes up significantly and you can very soon end up giving 60% of your takings to the government so why bother, have a life instead!
Sorry I'm not here to have a rant or a go at anyone but the questions asked are so anglosaxon that if they're being asked it beggars the question why come to France at all unless it's to live in an expat ghetto and complain that it isn't like backhome - great for anglo-french relations and integration!
Come and live here for a while, chile out and I'm sure you'll find it's the UK that's got it all wrong ;-)
Richard, I had missed this post earlier, my computer is all over the shop at the moment. As I am. The truth is I have not read all the posts, just the top and tail. I am savouring it all to read when I have a week or two spare.
I think what you have highlighted in the above para also highlights là difference. The cutting remarks from Steffi are indeed a vocalisation of what a French person might think but never say. Respectfully Steffi you are in my experience quite a rarity as you are clearly French, but with a command over 'English' that might put a lot of us to shame.
This hybrid will give Steffi an insight which, like it or not is accurate.
What I gather you are saying Rich is if 'we' want to put jam on our Yorkshire pudding then that's our business. Yo ho Gung ho, quite right. Not in France.
Do I understand this correctly? As has been said everything is like clockwork, thinking en mass, not out of the box. I often pop out in my 'slip on 'sandals, but if I have a pair of socks on, I'm not allowed out of the door. Regime, protocol, rules, regs.
I couldn't do it. I am L'Anglais, I've got good friends and command respect, as l'Anglais, and I have 'trained ' my chums to understand my humour, without which I couldn't exist.
Personally, I'm happy to be a cultural implant. I prefer it, and now, I don't let people 'push in' I shame them, and shout!. OI!
If I'm approached for a cigarette, I'll have a row in the street. I don't care.
If i'm in the shop situation and have had to asked the guy to repeat something , and he sighs, I walk out, mainly to stop myself clocking the guy.
I cherry pick the bits I like, the sun the sea the good times, the schooling, I just ignore the bits I don't want.
Thanks Jane, but he's still going
Guys, wouldn't this be more civilized to fire up the Skype, and chat this through with a drinkie?
Don't you people sleep?
Wow that is strong coffee you're drinking.
Hi again Richard. You are quite the insomniac, me too! Believe me all the people who leapt to the defence of 'its just France' retorts, have just got used to it all. Inwardly deluding themselves ( sorry all ) that it's all part of the charm etc. But I guess, like me everyone has stood there at some time and thought What? I can't believe this. But bit by bit we ( ok I've ) been bludgeoned down into submission, 'cos we all want the 'year in Provence feeling'.
There are several things that the indigenous can't do, it's a genetic thing. Some bent chromosome or DNA quirk Going back to the Bishop of Charlemain or whoever the pervy father of Europe was.
Hey, get me I'm doing a Steffie.
You are right the passive acceptance of one's lot has a bearing. Especially for the wine addled 70 hours a week farmer...They don't DO fitted kitchens, IKEA is pretty new here. A hight tech kitchen utensil is one of those twirly thing for mashing veg. I reckon land mass has a bearing. We go out on the Saturday, buying head on. We know what we want. We go the the business Park, its in PC World, but in Curry's it comes with a free printer.. these shops probably don't exist any more. But the point is be it Swindon or Tyneside every connerbation has a mirror of the next one. Al lthe same 6 electrical retailers, a Wimpy, a filling station all in walking distance, we play one off against the other, that's the fun. Back home for the footy.
France has the same populous and nigh on thrice the land mass. So there's only going to be one electro retailer, and what you want won't be in stock...the next store is 50 k down the motorway and it's gonna cost you 9 bucks in tolls. ie no competition.
We went to Beziers the other week, to buy a TV Video combo. None available. So we checked out the separates. Exsqueeze me Monsieur can you advise, which is best this one with the USB, or this one, and is it compatible with the TV, over there? Zis one! Ok thanks I'll take it. OOOH, I'll check if its in stock. Off he goes. Sorry Monsieur not in stock,
OK ill take the other one without the USB. Disappears....NOTt instock Mr., in fact we have no DVD player in stock. You blink! its one of those moments. I can't believe it. IN PC World you would go Ape! So I said ok we'll leave it then...as we walked off he said. Wait for it....."Do you still want the TV?"
more later if you're still up
Richard...your last comments on the French entrepreneur are as spot on as anyone can get..." My other suspicion is that the tax / benefits system makes it pointless to earn more than the minimum. I suspect that so long as a cafe owner is 'in employment' and makes a basic living that benefits in the form of tax credits kick in and top up his income. Any extra income, over the basic, simply goes to reduce the subsidy or tax-credit. Hence there is no benefit in offering me an omlette at 1.45 - the patron will end up with the same amount of money at the end of the week regardless."
The omelette example is perfect...the local village Spar superette,(I know the people pretty well), started opening an extra half day a week..after a few months he did a U turn and went back to usual hours..he told me that he was LOSING money by making more and hence paying more(tax/tva etc).
Ron,
I'm not winding you up, don't worry. I'm trying to scratch beneath the surface of the Franco-Mindset to work out why they sometimes follow some slightly bemusing practices. The French have many odd practices, but one that I just don't get is the way that they are happy not to be competitive on the high street. I wonder, as I wander around, why it is that things are the way that they are. Examples:
Many of these things are simply out-dated, inconvenient and inefficient.
I don't think that 'preserving the way of life' is the entire answer to why the French do these things. It certainly is in the case of state-granted monopolies such as the right to sell dolipran or tobacco or bread. Here, the state intervenes and grants somebody a monopoly and twists market forces. But it seems to me that the French traders are also complicit in something of a cartel - the restaurants decide their opening hours and who shall open / close on which days. As soon as a supplier opens up and breaks the rules they win the trade - most notably McD's, they are packed at 4pm....
I tend to think that the French public (outside of major towns) simply accept their lot - the traders have beaten them into a convenient pattern and they don't know how to demand any different.They are very much like the UK in the 70's and 80's - we bought Leyland cars because we were told that was all that was on offer...the French buy cruddie mops because that is what they are offered....
There is also a tacit agreement that neither customer nor vendor will disturb the other's apple-carte: the French public don't start demanding that dolipran is sold at the newsagents (where it is everywhere else in the world) because they know that this will disrupt the pharmacist's monopoly. If they do that the pharmacist will cry foul and say that the baker's monopoly should be broken up, and then the tobacconist's etc. etc. Then everyone will point to the fontionairres.....so the whole system rumbles on under a tacit understanding that everyone will be inefficient, but nobody will mention it because if they do then the whole system will 'collapse' and (god forbid) efficiencies will break out everywhere.....
In simple terms of village politics I think that if the baker started selling veg, or vice versa, that this would be considered 'underhand' and against the spirit of the cartel. The community is then quite capable of exacting revenge - the Mairie could find reason to make life difficult for the baker and the villagers could and would boycott the baker until he stopped his offending ways. I would say that they are quite capable of this. The baker knows it, so he doesn't try.
My other suspicion is that the tax / benefits system makes it pointless to earn more than the minimum. I suspect that so long as a cafe owner is 'in employment' and makes a basic living that benefits in the form of tax credits kick in and top up his income. Any extra income, over the basic, simply goes to reduce the subsidy or tax-credit. Hence there is no benefit in offering me an omlette at 1.45 - the patron will end up with the same amount of money at the end of the week regardless.
Of course, nobody wants to see pleasant little towns taken over by Tesco, or Carrefour. But (as with pleasant little villages in the UK) once Tesco rumbles into town the local traders either have to shape up or shut down. Of course, we are to blame for this because we all go and shop at Tesco ! And we do this because it is better value and delivers its products more efficiently. There is a degree of inevitability to this whole process, and in my view will roll across France eventually. The reason it hasn't thus far is because of the tacit agreement between the people, the entrepreneurs and the government that if everyone keeps quiet about the inefficiency then one day the problem will go away......
that and the benefits / tax-credits explanation....can anyone enlighten me on how that system applies to (e.g.) a cafe owner ?
Hi..after 30 years here in France..in business (antiques)..one simple answer to your question...EDUCATION..c'est à dire from the age of 3 or 4 when you first go to school. If the French system can't pigeon hole you....they don't want to know you.The entrepreneur(no matter which niveau he is)...is considered a bit 'outré'.....here the fonctionnaire is King...the rest just submit: bon courage..
Ronald,
Fear not, it isn't a wind up. And no, I haven't gone to bed: I'm a night owl at the best of times but I was (genuinely) just watching an interview of Marine Le Pen on BBC and was (unbelievably I know) dragged away from SFN for a moment.....
If you scroll back you will see that I stomped off in a huff because (some) people had missed the purpose of my question.....I reverted when several people said 'no, send another post' - so I did....a fresh thread on the subject of taste and who has the right to suggest that their taste (in anything really) is 'better' or 'correct' when compared to another's taste. Steffi had earlier commented:
another's taste. I mention ketchup because Steffi earlier wrote:
"So to answer the questions that visitors to France ask time and time again...Why can't I order my steak extra well cooked with no shallots sauce but ketchup?... Because the person cooking it takes pride in what he does, there are places that cater for you! I think the real question is... Why does it bother them so much? Like spoilt, petulant children screaming for more sweets."
I mention ketchup compared to vinaigrette, but it is intended to be a genuine thought provoking question as to who has the right to consider their taste superior to another's......a question best started under a new heading however !
Anyway, I shall post some thoughts on the French profit motice in a moment, to assure you I'm not winding you up (nor working through my shopping list - which I intend to acquire from LIDL...)
RM.
It’s very possible he’s gone to bed Ronald as it’s 1:45am…12:45am in the UK of course…
is this little thread starting to falter? I only came back to see what Steffi had to say.
Richard, If this has been one big wind up, I shall be really hacked of, as it's crashed my machine 20 times. If your gonna just crank people up by reading down the list of UK goods from your LOCAL UK rip off store, then may I suggest you pour a Pastis, and listen to the radio.
Thank you.
Not happy
You carry on Richard…I like what you have to say and how refreshing to see it so intelligently expressed…
Oh, and ketchup is great…
Thank-you !
Indeed.....My offence never amounts to more than a fit of pique (perhaps I am French after all).
I enjoy a good debate....so much so I have started a fresh post (and in tribute to you, Steffi) on the subject of ketchup....
That's it? Pffft! :D :D
What a thoroughly childish response…
Whoohoo! Faaar out the box there... Eat Pizza Express... at 3 o'clock in the morning... or maybe 10 past 5 in the afternoon... clothes from M&S or Primark... feed the kids baked beans and fish fingers and ask them if they'd like to go to school or take a bath and have your dog in the bed? It does go on and on? Maybe try to go IN the box :D
What's a "different" restaurant?
Was there a significant trauma in your childhood that prevents you from wanting to eat at "prescribed" hours?
What do you believe in and how do you make your stand?
I am totally pulling your leg and just having a bit of fun... but DO get out of your own "box" :D
In China they eat rice you know... Sorry :D
Seriously... listen to yourself... I mean that in the nicest pissable way :D
DId you knoooooow... that in Paris... they have 24/7 restaurants? Whoohoo... Bewildering!