When the UK was last in the EU it had a lot of power behind it ..and as an existing member it was in a position to either accept or reject a new currency being proposed ..Sweden was in a similar position and they decided to stay outside. Staying outside has costs and benefits , but don’t underestimate the costs .
The UK, if it wished to join the EU ..not rejoin (that ship has sailed), would need to satisfy the demands of the most reluctant current member before admittance to the club. If they insist on the Euro then so be it.
For my part I would welcome the UK back into the fold ,within or without the Euro as it’s absence has created great problems in Northern Ireland .
In relation to the first two exerts from my previous post that you chose to quote, please know that I was responding to another contributor who had inadvertently put forward the idea that Brexit had not been good for British people resident in the EU. (We now know that despite what was written it was the inverse of what that contributor to the discussion actually meant to say.)
Regarding your third point about it being easier and less costly to do business with the EU if one is a member, we are back to the issues of convenience (easier) and financial benefit (less costly) again.
For myself, the issues of convenience and financial benefit have always been overruled by the maintenance of the independence of the UK.
This was my view 10 yrs ago, and indeed way before that, and is still my view today.
I think one has to be a bit more specific if one is saying that the UK is, was or could be independent.
" no man is an island" , can probably be applied to the UK. The UK is dependent financially on many parts of the world in regards to import and export.
Personal credit (re credit cards etc) in the UK is dependent on Visa and Mastercard.
In terms of defence the UK are part of NATO. And why wouldn’t it be, given the current state of world affairs.
In terms of services in the UK , there is a great deal of dependence on the hard work of immigrant workers to maintain services.
Clearly it was Frog faces claim that if the UK became completely independent of the EU then it would prosper. But, it would simply, as it did just after BREXIT, have to find new markets. And then you are dependent on those countries. Farages favoured country being the US, which he would undoubtedly allow to introduce more of its produce and services, such as an insurance based health service. More dependence, but a different player.
The UK can not feed itself and this will get worse with climate change. This year farmers in the UK are reporting huge reductions in yield, reflected in increased prices in the shops. As a result of which the UK needs to import food.
Maybe I’ve misunderstood the term independent or maybe there’s an alternative interpretation?
Initially Dan, when idiots were negotiating on the UK side. Davis turning up with no notes for example or the super arrogant Frost. The only one on the team I respected was Ollie Robbins, he was a class act. The UK, bad as there were would have been lost without him.
But subsequently it created great opportunities for NI, a foot in both camps. I think it’s worked rather well as a fudge and the EU showed great sensitivity (unlike the arse Johnson) and flexibility.
Though, I don’t think NI has exploited the opportunity as well as it might have done. Apart from selling secondhand cars VAT and duty free into the Republic
I think it is important not to confuse the terms ‘independent’ and ‘interdependent’.
When you say " no man is an island" I think you are right, and also that it applies to every country worldwide.
So then, for me an ‘independent’ country is one which has its own democratically elected law making body that is not subject to constraints imposed by some other body in some other land.
Additionally, there has to be some sort of highest or ‘supreme’ court which is not fettered by some other court situated outside of the country’s boundaries.
Maintaining the above two criteria allows a country to be ‘independent’, and thus allows that country to choose with which other countries it will develop interdependence.
The “patriotic” Tories are moaning and groaning about this, failing to see the irony of it all.
Their neoliberal party drove the country onto the rocks, and they left it there, abandoning ship, blaming a deus ex machina - when their grifters had stolen the ballast to sell for scrap, stripped off the copper from the bottom, and mortgaged all the future voyages to the finance sharks.
It didn’t save their necks or their miserable party as it was intended to, and now the stones are bring turned we can all see the little grubs running for cover. Far from taking back control, they enabled the evil Putin as we said they would, and helped to catalyse the breaking up of world order.
As my home is just south of Dundalk I am very familiar with goings on. At present it is the lucrative trade in fireworks ..They all not not going to Drumcree.
Robert,I really don’t want to start rehashing the stuff of a decade ago .But the fact was that the UK WAS Independent and had agreed in their laws passed in Westminster with EU Policy in each case. That’s how the EU worked . And when the UK decided on their spurious grounds to leave , that decision was respected. The decision ,that is , not the reasons with which the majority of Europeans disagreed .
The UK /GB/ England makes and had made treaties with multiple counties on multiple grounds over the past 1200 years , some longer standing than others. Once you make a treaty ,it’s a contract and you abide by the rules you yourself agreed with.
If the UK was relatively unsuccessful in EU , ..look not at the EU , but instead the quality of the representatives the UK choose.
This will be the only contribution I intend making regarding this subject
Never bought a firework in my life .. Dad was a GP and was always telling us about the injuries . Only ever did Nelsons Pillar the once .. I think I got schoolboys rate at 3p. .. Oh and I have two lumps of it in the house as we speak. A younger brother , he would have been about 9 , went off from school and walked from Drumcondra school down to O Connell St and walked home with about 4 kgs as two lumps of granite in his schoolbag.. Chips were made for family …
Indeed so. The EU decides upon its policy and makes its regulations, and then member states are both expected and required to transpose that into domestic law. So being the good ‘rule followers’ that we are, it is hardly surprising that Westminster laws agreed with EU policy.
The recent conflict between France and the EU over the matter of forced heirship is an example of where EU regulation has taken precedence over the desires of the French parliament.
Until such time as you discover that the terms of the contract contain provisions that are not working out so well, and so you activate the ‘get out’ clause that was also in the contract from the start.
Oh really !
(I’m thinking of a person who makes a statement and then pushes their chair back from the table, stands up, and promptly leaves the room before anyone else can respond. An impression has been made, but perhaps not the one that you intended.)
or the super arrogant Frost. The only one on the team I respected was Ollie Robbins, he was a class act. The UK, bad as there were would have been lost without him.
