UK Brexit - Good or bad?

General Discussion
141

I think I understood what you said without the clarification. And still disagree with the point you seem to be making. Maybe it is I not explaining myself well enough.

In a country we accept that out neighbours usually via representatives such as MPs to decide what we can do in public and within our own homes.
That is the same in the EU. In order to be part of it we obey the rules set by the majority.
You seem to be saying that it is good we left the EU because we no longer have to do that? We can now have autonomy?
Indeed, if your argument is valid, since we (the UK) are out we can do whatever we wish.

I am saying that is not so. We are not a totally free country so long as we function in the world, so long as we trade. Unless we wish to be more isolated than N Korea or a 1970 Albania, we must conform to some or all the rules agreed with those we interact with.

The EU is our nearest and biggest trading block. It was when we were members and remains so.

Trade deals, in the real world we need “to obey” the rules of that deal.
Sometimes it is about product safety: we need our cars to conform to US emissions standards to keep that market. No issue there. We also may need to accept their foods here. More problematic. And if we were to allow GM food into the chain here, wouldn’t that affect how we can sell foods to the EU? A can of worms.

The UK is an island, but is not a self sufficient one in any sense of the word. We need trade, and we are far better off being fully inside the decision making process of our biggest trade partner. We are better as a large and important partner in the EU, not a minor player to the US or whatever, and not a far flung neighbour of TPP etc.

Independence is a nice idea, but it is not a realistic one. We are not independent in our homes so long as we need electricity, or to buy food, or need medical help etc, nor are we as a country independent.

Edit to add: re having laws imposed on the UK by the EU, if I didn’t mention it before I will now: the UK lost against the majority of the EU 2% of the time: that is we voted one way when the majority voted the other. By being part of the EU, we no longer even get to chage or influence the scope or degree of laws made by them, and since they are and will remain our biggest partners, we still do need to obey those rules.

Edit to add 2.. Couple of links EU facts behind the claims: UK influence – Full Fact
This site pulls together ONS and other sources in a very accessible way. UK trade - Brexit FactBase

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142

You’ll have to take that up with his biographers. Or the man himself, in due course :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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143

The woke minority who control this site find it necessary to correct or put down anyone who is not part of their clique .

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144

The last three topics you’ve commented on seem to be comments about woke. Do you have so little going on that that’s all you have to say? Can you not actually engage with the site rather than just complaining about woke like youre a substandard GB News presenter embarrassing themselves prattling on about a term that the world at large stopped using several years ago at this point?

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145

The site is controlled by @cat, with a tiny bit of help from moi. She is a minority, I agree, but I don’t think she’s especially woke.

Otherwise people might express opinions  but you really need to learn the difference between that and actuual control.

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146

Well thank you for taking the time to correct /educate me , incidentally I have no issue’s with Cat.

147

Bearing in mind that the meaning of the word ‘woke’ is being alert, conscious, and attentive to racial prejudice, discrimination, and systemic social injustice according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary, is there not an inherent duty upon the controllers of all discussion websites to actually be somewhat woke.
When the word is used as a put down by some commentators, could it be that this is an actual recognition by them of their own failings.

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148

Walter Pater wrote a lot about the Renaissance and banged on about everyone burning with a hard gemlike flame of intellectual and artistic appreciation for art and the natural world and compared that attitude to his own time (1870s) and said everyone should endeavour to burn with the aforementioned HGF and that not to be agog for such experiences was ‘on this short day of frost and sun, to sleep before evening’. So you could argue he was an advocate of being woke avant la lettre.

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149

Did you miss the memo, it now means “anything about modern life that I don’t like.”

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150

I’ve tried to have a conversation with a couple of people who are anti-woke and they can never come up with a definition of what their ‘woke’ is.

151

Just like the term “Gammon”….

152

Must be me then :smiling_face_with_horns:

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153

Certainly when used by a Right Wing/authoritarian/Trumpian/Faragist type of someone of the left wing liberal persuasion.

And vice versa

154

Hah, maybe. For me, it still refers to reactionary old men who think modern life is too woke. :wink:

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155

Being an old man who has now returned to my birth country after 18 wonderful years living in France, for the first time in that period I am able to buy and enjoy gammon steak which we never successfully found in France.
I guess that makes me a gammon​:wink:

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156

Did you have a pineapple ring to go with it? :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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157

I used to prefer a fried egg

158

Exactly what I had for dinner yesterday :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: x2

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159

On the contrary , I have no issue with you, you always (to me ) seem quite reasonable and fair minded. I would pose you a question , how many members are there on this board, and how many post ? and as you are in reality the moderator of this board and monitor the posts how many times do you note that anyone posting thoughts /views contrary to a small clique who post get shouted down?

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160

One of the things that delights me about this place is how light and even-handed the moderation is. In fact, quite often it’s one or other of the members who draws attention to “stuff”.

I would much rather that, than some of the awful behaviour of moderators I’ve seen elsewhere, in the dim and distant past.

Shouted down? I suggest rarely. If opposing views are being expressed, then it is up to each to defend their position. Some members on here are especially robust and articulate and are not going to roll over. Present an opposing view by all means, but expect to have to make a good case.

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