I can’t answer that as I have an S1, but I’m sure a more knowledgeable SFer will appear and answer your question.
My better half is French, married to an Irishman for her sins. However, it’s easier for her with the taxman. Which is worse for her? Hard to say. But thank you both for the advice. It was worth a shot.
Just had a quick look and you may get £15 Chris.
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I think the deal is I have to refer three people, but TBH I’m not fussed either way, I do genuinely recommend Wise from personal experience, and if the new customer gets a bit of a freebie that’s a bonus.
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No - the form in your case is probably only useful (as @Arcalia mentioned) for any UK interest - which is only taxable in France - and your AVC, but only when it starts to be paid.
No..As I mentioned in my post above, the tax treaty specifically “neutralises” the French tax on your pension, including prélèvements sociaux - aka social charges. So in the (probably hypothetical) event of any such charges arising on your UK teachers pension, the treaty effectively protects you.
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Hi,
Are you talking about the double tax treaty form? You don’t include the TP on this, as it willl not be necessary to exempt the TP from UK tax! (because you can’t).
You will enter the UK AVC personal pension /state pension on the form though as they will be taxed in France - unless the AVC is going to be taken under the auspices of the teachers pension scheme? Not a separate policy? Does the AVC buy you extra pension from the TP scheme?
If the AVC is separate to the teachers pension scheme and therefore taxable in France I also recommend you consider taking the personal pension in one lump sum to allow the ‘prelevement forfeiture’ rate of effectively 6.5% tax. You can find plenty of info about this on the forum.
Re the S1 with a French pension and working in France as the last country of work plus living here, France is your country responsible for your social security coordination so no (UK) S1 for you - this point was well rehearsed recently on the forum as well !
However, as social charges are considered a tax in the double tax treaty, there will be no social charges levied on the TP.
Sorry - just saw George has already mentioned this.
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I did not have this problem as I was a UK resident when I got my lump sum.
You could, go onto HMRC and use the contact form to ask the question, they take a while to respond but at least its written down, or use message secure on your online French tax account and detail your issue. Between the 2 you should get a better idea.
I did put the question to ChatGPT and this is what it said. If you put in your info accurately, (it’s not too bright and will take things literally unless you fully explain,) it will tell you which boxes to fill in on the tax form.
" Assuming you are a French resident and UK citizen and it is indeed a public sector pension:
’ If it is the one-off retirement lump sum paid when you took your UK Teachers’ Pension, you should not normally just include it with your annual pension in box 1AS/1BS. France treats pension capital payments separately and allows special tax treatment.
Your options are generally:
Tax it under the “système du quotient” declare the lump sum as an exceptional income (on the 2042-C), not together with your annual pension.
Opt for the 7.5% flat-rate tax**, if the conditions are met (single lump-sum payment and qualifying pension contributions). In that case, the amount is declared in box 1AT (or 1BT for a spouse)**, not in box 1AS/1BS.
So, don’t simply add the lump sum to your yearly pension amount unless you have established that the special treatment does not apply.
Many French residents with UK pension lump sums find that the quotient system results in a lower tax bill, but it depends on your total income.
The commuted lump sum forms part of that same pension entitlement. If it is tax-free in the UK, France does not generally acquire the right to tax it simply because you are resident in France.
This is an area where even some tax advisers get it wrong by assuming that all foreign pension lump sums are taxable in France. The treaty takes precedence over French domestic tax law where it applies.
My only suggestion is that when you complete your 2027 return, keep:
- your Teachers’ Pension award letter,
- the statement showing the lump sum, and
- evidence that it came from the Teachers’ Pension Scheme,
in case the French tax office ever asks why it wasn’t declared as taxable pension income."
I hope this helps.
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Not on the TP or lump sum, they are wholly taxable in the UK.
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As @George1 has said, the French tax office SHOULD NOT apply social charges to your Teacher’s Pension, but sadly this does not mean that they will not give it a go. Due to certain, shall we say ‘inconsistencies’, between different local tax offices, not all tax offices are as conversant with the Tax Treaty provisions as they should be. So it’s a bit of a ‘postcode lottery’ as to what happens. Be prepared to fight your corner on this point with your local tax office if needs be. Between us, I expect that both @George1 and I can provide you with the relevant documentary evidence with which to enlighten your tax office should the need arise.
On a broader note, please remember that all income is taxed in the year that you receive it into your control and NOT the year that you choose to bring it to France. You can either use the exchange rate to €uro on the day that you received the money into your control, or use the average rate for the year in question, but I believe that you will be expected to use the same method for all income received from all sources in any given year.
It’s not a bank account so I’ve never bothered. Unlike, say, Revolut, which is a bank which I declare amongst others. Wise doesn’t offer any banking products. There’s a small amount of cash back if you keep a cash balance with them, but not even interest as such.
However, such an account is a “Financial Account” and thus earns itself a place on a 3916 form for the Hotel des Impots. The form costs nothing to fill out, but failing to do so can turn out to be very expensive.
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Oh I know and I do fill it out. I think it’s €40 fine per account per year you fail to declare, or it was when they brought in the requirement in I think. I just don’t think transfer companies qualify. Before I found (Transfer)Wise I used several others, Torfex springs to mind. I doubt I ever “closed” my account with them. I did do a spring clean on bank accounts though when I started reporting. Better safe than sorry. I’ll stick it on next year.
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Just to bring you up to date the penalty is;
Financial penalties: €1,500 per undeclared account (€10,000 for countries without a treaty), a fraud surcharge of up to 80%, and above all a reassessment period extended to 10 years (Tax Procedure Code art. L.169 para. 5). With the automatic CRS exchange (100+ jurisdictions), detection has become unavoidable.
Source; https://www.bensaid-avocats.fr/foreign-accounts-penalties/
Oh, that’s a bit more than 40 quid a year per account.
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Unfortunately as I recently discovered, Wise creates actual bank accounts when transferring your money, hence the requirement to report them on a French return…
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Many many thanks to all contributors. I’m sorry I couldn’t reply yesterday to some of you as I got sinbinned by the spam bot for too many posts in one day.
As you may have guessed, tax forms are not at all my cup of tea, and ‘les administrations’ in my experience are generally better at dealing with straightforward cases, and sometimes not even.
Anyway, thanks to you things are much clearer. I’m an in-betweener at the moment, but maybe at some stage I’ll be asking about the state pension. For the time being, I’d just like to say I’m really chuffed at finding this forum. Back when I first arrived in France, there was really no internet to speak of and so it’s kind of amazing to see this level of support. I’m off to hoke out my forms and annoy a minor tax officer or two. May be your day be sunny, but not too much. Stay safe put there!
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..out there, I mean.
I think that applies when you are a new member, after a while you get freed up to pester the forum as much as you like, as the poor devils who read my stuff have discovered over the years.. 
(One limitation remains which is you can’t post more than three times in a row within a thread, without someone else replying).
So if you want to comment / reply to multiple people in a thread, use the “copy quote” option to reply to them all within one post.
Noted, thank you for the info!
Thanks for that George, I’d missed your original post.
I looked up my Wise account and it has a UK account for sterling, a Belgian account for euros and an Australian account for Aussie dollars. None of which I authorised being set up. So, as you say, they must open nominal accounts in whatever country you’re transferring money to 
So that means if I transfer €100 to a pal in SA for his daughter’s 18th I end with a Rand account, or €100 to a pal in Dubai I end up with Dirham account. Not to mention my MAGA subscription which would require a USD account. None of which I would have set up personally, no ID, no proof of address, no signature.
Over time one could end up with loads of bank accounts one didn’t actually know existed, unless one looked. If there’s a reporting requirement associated with those I would have expected Wise to let me know, since they created the accounts, not me.
Unlike you I’m no finance expert, the opposite in fact, and lazy with it. 
I also have to confess I don’t even do my own tax return, I wouldn’t trust myself to get it right. I just give all the data to an accountant who does a super, inexpensive job and avoids me making mistakes. I’ll send him a note about Wise and see what he recommends. I think I’ll send Wise a note too.