:-)
After all the WMD lies, is it surprising? Who do you believe? The people who should be at the front of the queue to sort this out are Syria's neighbours. It's a no-win situation for the "west". Whatever they do, it's wrong. Russia and China are the ones that need to open their eyes.
I kinda do wish that someone could ask MP's what number of children , elderly and innocent people have to die so horribly before they themselves 'want' to get involved ? Then it just becomes a simple waiting game watching the numbers of dead increase.
This is the most shameful piece of British history. I assume the politicians will be delighted when someone uses chemical weapons on the UK. They had their chance to resist. They must now accept any consequences.
'S where I worked for decades... Anyway, it is all of them formed me in that sense.
I should have *known* you would know :-)
Added a bit of clarity to *my* muddled thinking!!!
David Held, yes Graham David is about three years younger but for most of my Cantabrigensian time a contemporary. People always gave Tony Giddens, Mr Third Way, the credit but David knows politics better than most, certainly several times better than Tony. The other man who I am looking out for is John Keane, who is Professor of Politics at the University of Sydney and at the Wissenschaftszentrum Berlin. When John gets his teeth into something like this, as with David, then things become very, very clear.
I found this very thoughtful - and thought provoking - article:
http://www.social-europe.eu/2013/09/red-lines-and-dangerous-incoherence-syria-and-the-international-community/
Interesting thought. Since they are not back in session until 9 September there is also time for diplomatic progress to be made and if one side or the other refuses to lay down arms and it happens to be the 'rebels' then Obama is in a very compromised situation. This next week shall be very interesting.
Couldn't agree more!
I think you are right --- but the problem is that there were apparently 11 separate sites where the chemicals were used. I really doubt that the insurgents have the organisation to co-ordinate an attack over that number of sites. The whole thing is so horrible tortuous - and neither side appears trustworthy in the least!
I also think that Brian's "conspiracy theory" definitely has legs - chemical weapons have been used on a number of occasions over the last couple of years to only muted protest. Was it just the sight of so many dead children that sparked the outcry?
What a total mess - and dreadful to see any country torn apart like this!!!
I had heard it suggested by a middle east reporter on BBC that Al Quaida had Sarin and had given it to the rebels who used it as a double bluff to make the west believe it was Assad and join the war in support the rebels. It sounds plausible doesn't it? What did Assad have to gain from it?
The AP reporter's interview with the Syrian rebels who say they are responsible for the chemical weapon accident is all over YouTube. It seems fairly convincing to me and I am a prize Doubting Thomas as a rule. So why is the USA not following through to find out either way whether it is just possible that they are telling the truth or do they just want rid of Assad and are simply using this as a cover up? It gets smellier by the hour.
Churchill indeed said that. As for Syria's treaties you may well be right. However, despite all bans the west, UK included, has manufactured the chemicals that are used in warfare if, or at least if we are to believe politicians, they have not actually put them into the ordnance that makes them weapons. Something smells very wrong with the USA's rush to start firing cruise missiles. As for the world's policeman, like many coppers before they are getting flat feet and people are noticing.
I agree - but the American weapons (sorry "Defense") industry is a mighty powerful lobby!!
Agree there, it somehow looks like the chemical weapons have become an 'excuse'. I am also intrigued by the alternative question after all of the years the west was very friendly with Assad senior no matter where he bought their weapons. Damascus, as I knew it, was a quite western place rather than one that had much of the Soviet Union about it in any way, we used to go there for R and R whilst working in Lebanon during the 1975-90 civil war because it was safe and secure.
Brian will correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Syria signed up to any treaties banning them from using chemical weapons - and the West has been very happy to continue selling them to them!
Didn't Churchill (regarded by many as a war monger) say that "jaw jaw is better than war war"???
*that* will be interesting! I really think the USA is getting tired of being the world's policeman - and paying for the privilege!!
Really interesting thoughtful replies from everyone.
Can I throw another incendiary into the fire - why is it only the deaths from chemical warfare that everyone is concerned about? Surely the 100,000 deaths from conventional weapons are just as valuable? Yes, I know chemical warfare is illegal but deaths are deaths however they are caused. Is it just that the west is hoping to get Assad prosecuted as a war criminal? Just hoping to make political capital out of the situation again. How foolish was Obama to draw that red line when he doesn't really want to act but now feels he has to do something or look completely impotent.
Warfare never solves anything eventually everyone has to sit round a table and talk. Why do the west think the alternative to Assad is preferable. They are various disparate groups and who knows what their policies and aims are. The West should be careful what it wishes for!
My gut feeling is that something is wrong. I find it really striking that almost immediately Putin made sense for the second time that the USA has decided there will be action. Before anybody assumes anything, normally in terms of who I would trust, it would be Obama long before Putin. This time I almost have the feeling that the USA is rushing into it before (for instance) somebody convincingly presents evidence that rebels are also using chemical weapons. The Associated Press reporter Dayle Gavlak (or a name like that) claims to have interviewed rebels who say they had an accident with chemical weapons themselves, including 12 of their men dead. The rebels detained on the Turkish border most clearly were in possession of chemical weapons and that came from the Turkish government. So, something does not ring true somewhere.