Apprehended in possession of valuable knowledge!
Busted!
PS: Just a guess. Did you read history? Your structure thoughts as though you did and I wish more people would value that discipline rather than patching together what they thought happened.
I believe, and somebody might know, that several economists on both sides of the Atlantic have made that last point over the last couple of decades.
As for the exceptions and so on, Nick is making exactly the real point. The exceptions excite a rabidly right wing press with all of their anti socialist welfare system (which it never was) polemic and are made what is generally happening by gullible readers. As I said before, so many people responding on this thread know or know of umpteen cases which makes it appear as though the vast majority of the millions of claimants (including all manner of pensions of course) are on the make. Each of the people stating these cases also makes themselves out to be a pure as driven snow. Now there is another point, how many of us are?
Please look at the history of the modern welfare system. It was not introduced specifically as a safety net as you are assuming but as a means of levelling disparity out. It sounds like a socialist notion doesn't it? Bit there was still a coalition government because the drafting took place during the closing stages of WW2 and immediately after before there was a general election. Neither Atlee nor Churchill would every have achieved what they did. That's not my view that is what is recorded by historians. It went wrong, as much does.
Thank you a fine day to you, won't be as lucid today owing to a Burns Night headache!
Jane, we can certainly agree on the the first point. I truly believe there isn't this mass of non-contributing people making hay on the UK system, it is a myth. There are currently 2.7 million unemployed and this is where the real problem lies.As a society these people need to be cared for. They are British citizens. It costs money.
There will always be the odd fringe case, but they are the exception not the rule.
I would make the point however , there are now a number of UK citizens who for many reasons, did not obtained the necessary skills for work in the 21st Century from their education.For them the future does look very bleak. Even after the recession is over, the jobs that anyone with limit skills could do, won't be there. This leaves a much bigger ethical and political debate than this one.
I think in the not to distant future, people will be being paid to nothing, as there will be nothing for them to do.
The whole point of welfare "fraud" reform is to shift blame to another. Its a classic 3 card monte being played in Europe and Americas, watch the hands. Brian in an early post nailed it: in every institution, there are some human failures. You are not ment to see the card disappear before you choose.
I have worked since both my kids were 15 months old, only part time (28hrs which is 80% time in France) but this means leaving the house at 8am and returning at 8pm, two days a week. This means I can have Wednesdays off when there isn't any school. Now they are (just) 5 and 7yrs old, I am quitting my job to go self employed so I can have more flexibility on my hours, to be there for my kids. My little boy cries because mummy is not there at home time, my daughter is resentful that mummy does not go to school plays and so on - like all her friends mummy's (OK not everyone but that is how she sees it).
We have found it much harder as the kids get older, which was a surprise as we thought it would get easier. The other difficulty over here is the amount of homework they get - I know they should do it themselves but when they are only 6, they can't actually read enough to do it all themselves.
Well you are lucky that you have Grandma but are you saying that this is right? Or something that needs to be addressed?
Why on earth are you talking about women?
Don't be ridiculous. Nothing in life is ever for free.
Agreed. As per my points the other night re the fact parents who stay at home are also contributing. And again, a shame that a potentially great discussion got sidelined by people with an axe to grind. Ho hum...
Quote " An immigrant family with 6 children have been given a 6 bedroom detached house in West Hampstead, north London, an extremely desirable area, the taxpayer is picking up the rent tab of £7600 per month " - agreed this is unpalatable.
But please, let us blame the governments who sold off the council housing stock rather than the occupants, who at the end of the day, are just occupying a property at 'market' rates. Thank you Maggie. What an excellent idea that was.
I think Nick that nobody has a problem with the welfare system providing the safety net it was intended to provide and the stigma of claiming benefit when you have paid your contributions has mainly disappeared.
It is the ingrained benefit dependance culture that needs challenging, with the third generation now using any excuse not to work. I know that jobs are hard to come by, but hardworking decent families are going without to pay the benefits of these lazybones.
Great post Brian.
It is quite funny - but slightly frightening that it was actually published in a "proper" Newspaper! It wasn't exactly a compelling arguement for anything was it? I am sure my English teacher wouldn't have accepted that as an essay about the proposed benefit capping plan! Frankly I expect the Independent to be more reasoned than that - it was more like a rant down at the pub after a long evening....perhaps that is when it was written!!
feel desperately for the first case, the second just makes me angry!
Humbled to horrified in less than 4 hours. (This is short and sweet because I'm meant to be working.)
Listening to the BBC interview made me realise what dire straits some people are in in the UK through no fault of their own. That man was living on £56 a week. He had tried everything he could to get a job to get himself out of the situation and was so full of despair and shame it was heartbreaking.
On the other side of the benefit coin, while I was making lunch the Chawners were on the TV talking about a reduction in their (I think) £19k benefits: "It's disgusting, they're taking £500 of my money."
Director: "Well it's not actually your money. Is there anything you could cut back on?"
C: "How can we cut back, we have nothing as it is"
Director: "Well what about Sky?"
C: "Oh I couldn't lose Sky. The day would be horrible."
Oh well, boo hoo. Maybe removal of the TV would promote some activity!
I laughed. Esp. about the aircraft carrier...!