Andrew - one word...http://www.curryinfrance.com/ - ok well that is more than one and I am NOT just saying it because they advertise on SFN either! Tis all you need for a proper (hot) curry - James has stopped making his own after buying theirs and we are both pretty fussy....
Evelyne - I LOVED your comment about not unpacking people's emotional baggage - brilliant!
And last but not least - Emily - fantastic discussion! Thank you! x
Reply to Emily Montès response to my comment: I was lucky, my costs were covered by CPAM as I worked. I know it is difficult to find work here because everyone is "boxed" into jobs they can do, because it is what they have always done. I was lucky, although it is not a large English community where I live, I live fairly close to Saint Emilion. I applied for a job at a Chateau and hotel, through Pole emploi, who did not put my application forward, because I had never worked in hotels or the wine trade and to add insult, perhaps at 53 I was a bit old. I ignored them and went direct to the chateau. I convinced the owners that I could learn and that my rusty French would improve, and have not looked back. You have to bypass the system sometimes. Don't give up
I have a friend who gives business english tuition by telephone and she says that the difference between those sent by private enterprise and the "fonctionnaires" is amazing.
One lot gets their work done on time and is totally interested and never misses lessons and the other she struggles with. No prizes for guessing which category gives her the most difficulties.
Skype, yes we've been talking about doing that for ages but still haven't got round to it and seeing as I only phone the UK once in a blue moon... typical bloke not - not very good at keeping in contact with family etc in the uk !
I tried a curry sauce I found here once - it was disgusting, I'm a vindaloo man myself so most of what can be bought here just isn't worth it + I'm not in a very "brit" area so there's nothing really in the shops - will try further a field or when we go down to the sea as I think there's more demand there... doing a risotto tonight for OH and kids, at least I can get descent arborio rice no problem !
oh and I think I can remember what I microwave is...!
Hi Emily
You seem to be shell-shocked by the "separation de biens". Do you know that an English marriage is considered like that in France? Well, that's what our notaire told us when we bought our house, so we did a "donation au dernier vivant" so each one has the right to keep the house after death. However, it does not affect my right to health cover by my husband and so on.
As for inheritance, things are different here depending on "communauté de biens" ou "séparation de biens". For example, my parents were married under "communauté de biens" so when my dad died, we all had a share of the property (4 children and our mum). But only on paper as we can't throw our mum off the property, she has the use (usufruit) of it until she dies. In a way, it is to protect children of first marriages. She can't remarry and give it all to her new husband! My husband has a child from a previous marriage but he seems to have no rights on our assets, so like your husband has done, provisions have to be made to readdress the balance. Which is only fair, I get on very well with him and I wouldn't want him to get nothing if his dad died before me.
They're still young, 4 and 2.5, and I try to speak to them as much as possible in English but they never hear a two way conversation whi ch is what's lacking. They watch peppa pig and others in English and have no problems understanding me but obviously they're far more french than english! Even though I'm a linguist I can't work miracles - it's very interesting watching them grow up linguistically and they're on track to be bilingual as far as comprhension is concerned, but they're active spoken english may not be so good (but way better than their peers as you say) When they do repeat what I say or try to say something their accents are so strong! But the latest really good news is that they've started saying "stop it" in english to each other so it is working ;-)
And I'd kill for a good curry, I eat one every two years when I go to the UK. Just not worth bothering with here - nobody else would touch it if i did try and cook one!
You can be an "ayant-droit" under your husband's number. I've got my own card but with my husband's NI number on it, although I earn more than him now, it does not matter.
Maybe your husband is also struggling to break away from his strong mother's claws: Corsican mums are all-seeing and always right! They're not even French (well some of them keep blowing up houses to tell the metropole they want independence). No really, in France, when you say you're from Corsica, the labels are "strong character, down to earth, very tradition orientated, matriarch rules the house but the chief of the family remains the man". So maybe that's why he's chosen you, to help him break away. Well, you're the one with psychology diploma, not me!!!
As Andrew said, mixing cultures and nationalities is not an easy task, but it does work out if both parties accept differences and take the best of each culture. And sometimes you have to agree to differ. You've arrived from the UK with your own baggage and it does not fit in your husband's cupboards, so what, keep your stuff in a corner and gradually take things out. If you unpack everything in one go, of course, you get a bad reaction. If there are items in his cupboard you can't accept, then he should also be prepared to compromise. It takes time to know each other in a marriage and especially when both don't have a similar background. As you say in English, Rome wasn't built in a day!
As for food, yes, it's important in France but how are you expected to get it right (according to his taste) when YOU haven't had the French Corsican mum or grandma showing you how to do it. It took me years to master curries, I had never had any before my move to the UK. It took many trips to the Indian restaurant to understand... :)
J'y crois pas, ça a dû être vachement dur pour lui vivre en alsace, c'est un autre monde pour un montpelliérain - c'est l'allemagne là-bas, et ma belle mère est pareil - toujours avec son tablier, c'est elle qui tue le cochon ou les canards, elle fait du foie gras, des saucisson etc. les hommes s'occupent des vaches pas des enfants !
good luck with the carte vitale - go autoentrepreneur and you'll get one via the RSI instead of the CPAM, just a thought or are you already AE ?
@ +
2008/2009 brought an explosion in training courses as the government sent people on them instead of them sitting at home - I was asked to rejoin the team at the CCI and at 40€ an hour it was pretty good. But i don't think they'll be doing that again - no money left!
You're lucky your husbands open and I guess he knows a bit about the UK. My OH is fairly open but knows nothing about the UK, hardly speaks English and as I was here in France and already spoke French when we met she's never seen the need to compromise, especially once the kids came along - she once pointed out that here in southern France, the father is only allowed to intervene in bringing up the kids with the mother's permission - strong words but that's how it is - she was brought up by her granny because her mum had to continue to work on the farm, that's just the way it was - Middle Ages or what!!! Suffice to say she's come round to my way of thinking especially as she wants me to do as much as possible - brother in laws all think I'm pédé because I help with the kids though :-O
we have the standard french "pharmacie", but it's ridiculously small compared to my mother in law's!, my OH has even got a pharmacie for her horses too and could never understand why I never wanted to go to the doctors when I had a cold - I've gone native now and go at the slightest snivle to be sent off to collect my bag of medicine - there's something in the fact that it costs such a bloody fortune in social charges that everyone wants to get their money's worth, including me now!
"they look the same as us but that's where it ends" love it and soo true, takes ages in a mixed nationality couple to really live together in harmony (Emily - it does happen and will happen I promise you, the first few years are the worst then everything's obvious and you wonder why it was all such a fuss (but people will tell you you've changed when you go back to the uk!))
PS it's a pretty shitty time for most people regarding work at the moment and I don't think it's going to get better yet, in fact it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better (PSA for example, I think it's just the start.) a couple of years ago I was turning down work here in France, both teaching and translating - no longer the case now :-(
As British people, we do not realise the major difference in culture between the two nations. Before I moved here a British man who had lived here many years said " They look the same as us, but that is where it ends". Don't get me wrong, I have many French friends, I get on well with French neighbours. However although we live here, we are guests in their country and we should expect to adapt to their ways.
One thing that did surprise me was their attachment to the medical profession. You go to the doctor and leave with a bag full of medicine. When we visit friends they sometimes show us their cupboard of medicaments with pride. Not surprised their is such an overspend on healthcare. You can't escape it. I broke my ankle 2 years ago and a nurse came in twice a day to inject me with something, for 8 weeks. never happened to me in the UK when I did the same thing. When I refused the injections, she said that she, my doctor and the hospital would refuse to treat me if I did not continue. No choice, I did not have the tools to remove my own cast. So I continued with the injections, plus the tablets to help with the side effects of the injections, plus the tablets in case those had an effect on me, plus the Dollyprane etc. etc.
Emily, I agree with you.
You're right not to stereotype the French and British as each country has its set of "safe" and "daring" people. I know many people that have kept the same job forever both in France and in the UK but there are also some that move about, although it's difficult to be accepted. In France, you have to be lucky to find an open-minded manager that is not scared by a CV with 5 different jobs. Although, things are changing slowly. As you know, change is not easy to implement in any country, not just in France.
Entrepreneurs (isn't it a French word?) have to be very motivated to make it in France but many do - set up a business - fail - start again. I think some French people would like to belong to a more flexible society, this is reflected in the number of people that have taken up "auto-entrepreneur" status. Many will fail in their endeavours but at least, they try. What's the alternative: being a fonctionnaire for life?
As for your personal life, why can't you do the same job in France ? You could work for a British company and represent them in Britany? Or help French companies to export to the UK? Your husband seems to be stuck with "get a salaried job" but in fact you can make more money as self-employed (consultant, VRP) and keep the flexibility to look after your children. If you get a full-time job, you don't get enough days to cover school holidays, you can't take days off when babies are sick, plus you'll get stressed managing work-home-family.
With 3 children, you already get lots of money from the CAF (I hope the CAF knows you have 3 children, it makes a big difference), so just find work that can complement this rather than pay childcare for 35h a week.
Well that's only my opinion!
Best regards
You've lost me a bit on the jimdo address? Why are you looking at using your skills in the UK rather than nearer to where you are?
Anyway, I have a psych degree, postgrad counselling diploma and 15 years' teaching psych/counselling, so similar background. I gave it all up to rescue a very sad chateau. I agree it's best to be honest. In fact, I would say it's part of ethical practice??
As for the fonctionnaires, there was more than one of them! I got under their skin sufficiently for them to feel they needed back up, ( 5 of them and 2 "minders" to deal with me!). They were mostly quite normal stature, though I wouldn't be surprised if they were Little somewhere!
I have grrrrrr'ed a lot!
It was a building project. I know there are loads of stories about UK DIY'ers who've come a cropper when they thought planning and building regs don't apply in France, but it wasn't like that! We did have a lot of relevant skills and experience and did everything by the book and had more courage than anyone else had done, but it was all thrown back at us/disregarded. It's a long story, and one about which I said I'd write a book one day. Working title:- Le Chateau Blown-aparte. It's about an exploded chateau, (really!), geddit? So far, though, whenever I think about getting down to it I get overcome with the desire to put it all back in the "thank god that's all in the past" box. Either that, or the genuine fear of legal action for defamation holds me back. I've tried to think of ways of "telling my story" which avoids individuals being identified, but can't see a way while still keeping it reasonably grounded in reality. Still it's all in the bottom drawer of the filing cabinet and one day, who knows????
BTW, have you considered coaching? I mean as in "life" not as in bus driving or sports. Are you in an area where there are a lot of ex-pats who could do with some professional support? I never looked into the regulations as far as counselling/coaching training/ supervision/accreditation was in France, but I suppose it's poss. to find out?
Yes, understanding WHY helped me control my stress and fear, (of being bullied and intimidated), and bolster my sense of my own right-ness, rather than allowing me to change their opinions or ways of dealing with me. After all, the powers that be could just shrug their shoulders and/or ignore my views. In my case, I was able to extricate my self, after several years of stress and considerable financial loss and decided to do that and follow another course. I realised I wasn't going to "win", (be able to do what I planned or change their point of view) though I must say acceptance of that is a very hard lesson, (and I haven't fully achieved it!). Grrrrr
I fully agree with you!
That's also why they haven't been able to reform the pension system in France since some bright genius put it in place in 45 ! It's going bankrupt but nobody changes it. ENA does not produce thinking machines, and the Unions are led by men in their late 50's, so it's not going to change!
Do you know the French song : tout va très bien Madame la Marquise? Have a look on youbube.
You got it in one! "impossible" is said in fear of the unknown, in fear of losing power and position, in fear of admitting the uselessness of such a rule (because it means admitting one's job is also pointless)... Also it's said as in "I don't like you and can't be bothered to try and help!".
I think sometimes it also means "I can't make that decision because my boss would kill me". One difference I've found in France v UK, is that responsibility is not delegated, employees are not empowered . I had a frustrating experience recently in a shoe shop where I wanted to get my money back, the lady kept saying "impossible". In the end, she said in an hysterical voice "je vais avoir un blame!" Getting an offical warning for reimbursing a pair of shoes, I couldn't believe it! But true or not, it must be a Sword of Damoscles in the workplace for her to even mention it.
Thanks.
As we remember those who died in the first World War, we are on the verge of an European collapse; interesting...
Just to give you an insight, I went to the ceremony on Friday in our small village. I believe it's important for children to be told about wars and to honour those who died or suffered. So the 'maire' read a letter written by Sarkozy who told us to remember the French soldiers who died to preserve France's peace and freedom. I was taken aback. My children have British and French great grandfathers who fought in that war, so should they only remember my granddad? Shouldn't the words have been 'remember all the soldiers who died to preserve peace and freedom in Europe'? or in the world? No, that was a bit of cocorico. Are we already back to a nationalistic state of affairs as you said Emily?
les anglosaxons broadly means English speaking people, not just British but also Irish, Americans, Canadians, Australians... I suppose what you consider part of the anglosphere.
Best regards
Evelyne
Sure, each country has its own way of "protecting" itself. That's why it's great with you understand 2 languages because you can actually compare the news, and then make your own opinion.
As for school, the national curriculum in France is meant to ensure that everybody gets the same knowledge but locally there can be variance. At the end of the day, it's down to the parents to check what the children learn, give an alternative view or add to the lesson and get them to ask questions.
This is what we do with our children but it is backfiring as our 10 y old is now enjoying asking questions neither we nor the teacher can answer! Our little girl has also been practising "why?" since birth. Children are very curious by nature but this gradually reduces as they go further into the education system. I don't know how their teachers will appreciate their questioning as time goes by - so far they've been pleased to get such interested children.
We are moving away from emily's question but if you're looking for an interesting book on education, read François de Closets 'le bonheur d'apprendre et comment on l'assassine'. I don't know if it's in English.
Hello Andrew, Yes, well, I was trying to get some pretty high up fonctionnaires to accept my way of thinking. Of course, in retrospect, I realise they were never going to do so. They had done well in the ed system and thereafter throughout their careers by using these familiar ways of understanding things. They were now in a similar position in relation to me that their teachers and "superiors" had been in in relation to them when they were the students/inferiors, i.e. a position of power. They therefore had a lot invested in the maintenance of the status quo, which was partly that we should use the familiar "don't question authority", etc ways of thinking. SO, I was on a hiding to nothing from the outset.
Emily, interesting what you say about adaptability/resourcefulness. In general, I suppose, that quality is part of the reason we are/were living abroad in the first place. The first example you give reminds me of something a friend of mine always said about an oft-encountered attitude in France. He called it "Bloody Childishness"!.This tendency to "judge" and "put the boot in" I would also describe as bullying and I've been on the receiving end of it from supposedly mature and definitely successful and powerful fonctionnaires. And,to link this into the education system as well, I know of a number of instances of teachers in French schools who have behaved in ways I would describe as bullying. As for your second point about initiative, yes again. Use initiative in the UK and you're likely to be rewarded, in France, you will probably be ridiculed or, worse, treated as beneath ridicule.
I think we've all had and continue to have a good stab at understanding WHY we're often swimming against the current in France, which all helps develop acceptance. However, I'm not sure it''s actually going to give one the ammunition to change things to any great extent.