Or a kiwi
It might depend on where they're applying from?
Showing my ignorance here, because I'm not familiar with B1, C1, DELF etc but three of mine did the bac S, applied for Uni via the post-bac system, put their nationality as Irish, would have put their first language as English if asked (can't remember if that was included or not) and got into their chosen courses with no problem at all. No one ever asked about their level of French!
I assume therefore that if they have a bac generale they are deemed to be capable of continuing their studies in French and as Veronique says, the level of French required to pass the bac is probably off the scale of foreign language tests anyway?
If they wanted to study languages I suppose it might be looked at in more detail, but in any case they have to submit all their notes when they apply so their language levels would be fairly evident I think?
What's the Facebook group called? I'd quite like to join it.
God knows how my uni students got their bac because they are definitely not at B2 level.
I'd still prefer to think that, like the Scots recently, the British will stare into the chasm and step back. I hope that people who think about issues outnumber Mail and Sun readers! Or is that giving our fellow-countrymen too much credit?
Hmmm....
- "Reply by Simon Oliver on May 15, 2014 at 11:08
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I left Northern Ireland 50 years ago because my family were considered 'outsiders': they had been living in Ulster since 1604."
United Kingdom of Great Britain and?
Excellent and well-balanced article in this month's Connexion which you should all read. Does it answer all the questions? No, of course not, because the Britsh Government [indeed, all the political parties] haven't even BEGUN to consider the consequences for British residents, let alone for us poor ex-pats.
Sanguine is also used in art to describe drawings done in red or brownish (faded) ink and was based on the early use of blood as a graphic material. Generally but not always old master drawings. BTW Brian my Oxford admittedly pocket dictionary gives cognizant although I must admit I thought it was cogniscant until I looked it up! Sad old codger that I am!
Debra, I think you'll find that a lot of SFN members are not, in fact, from the UK. Blithely assuming that all 'ex-pats' are from the UK is a mite arrogant.
It irritates, especially if one is Irish.
Much the more worrying thing would be if Marine le Pen won the next presidential election and tried to take France out of the EU. Not likely, but probably with far greater consequences for expats here.
That right (which is reciprocated) dates from the Treaty. If you rent a field full of thistles and shove an ass on it, you can get Euro small farmer's dole too!
Yep, about the squaddying, would be very Dad's Army-ish if you did have to do it :)
Quite honestly, Debra, I came here in 1977 and had, and have had, no problems since ; and if there are any that crop up if the UK commits suicide in that way, then I'll just use that wheeze I found out about lately about over-65s with more than 20 years residence having a fast-track to French nationality !
*glad I won't have to do two years squaddying though*
For some reason I can't reply directly -
"I've found some Parisien universites that require C1, as I thought, but this one only requires B2 for entry http://www.univ-paris5.fr/INTERNATIONAL/Admission-des-etudiants-etr... so surely that must be enough to cope with the bac? "
This is for FOREIGN students coming to university in France with FOREIGN qualifications. My opinion is that for someone to succeed in the Bac s/he needs a MUCH higher level of French than B2, because, as I said, the Bac isn't designed for foreigners it is designed for native speakers. Foreign students turning up with B2 or C1 in French to do a course in France will struggle initially but already have a much higher level in their native language and a more solid base of knowledge, especially as they usually come for an Erasmus year (usually the 3rd year of a BA course).
"Why do they let foreign students go to a French lycee with only level B1 DELF then? Or to university with a C1? It sounds like they're doomed to failure."
Because they have got to go somewhere - and because they are expected to get a lot better than that PDQ: those are MINIMUM requirements. What does a child whose parents came here when s/he was 14 or 15 do? S/he goes to lycée if that is what the parents want and has to do as best s/he can in French to survive - there aren't many other choices. What do you think happens to people coming to the UK in say, year 10 from a non-English-speaking country? It is the same thing. I'm not telling you about what the minimum requirement for getting on a course may be, I'm telling you about the level you need to be at to do well; not the same thing at all. Plenty of native speakers don't even get to the Bac or indeed Lycée at all, and plenty of native speakers fail it (cf the % of an age-cohort who leave school without any qualifications in the UK and yet English is their native language).
"So does that mean they do only study up to level B2 in French during their general Bac then? I find that really hard to believe when one of my sons has that level already and seems to be struggling in his seconde French class (unless it's just the dodgy teacher that thinks that)."
The teacher is probably right if s/he says B2 is the level your son is at BUT to do well in the Bac they have to be good native speaker level, (which is off the CECRL scale, obviously as it is designed for learners of a foreign language) by which I mean able to use language in a sophisticated precise and effective manner - the papers are anonymous so no allowance is made for foreigners, if their French is no good it's no good (that goes for idle semi-literate French candidates as well, obviously). If you are dyslexic etc and have a certificate you get an extra 1/3 added to the time although it is debatable whether a Bac candidate really wants or needs to spend 5 hours and 15 minutes in an exam room....
If this seems confusing think of the level of English that even good French Bac pupils have and then the level of English required of UK natives doing English A level in the UK. It's not at all the same thing, not even comparable.
B2 is the level they need to reach in their main foreign language for the Bac. For all the other subjects they are expected to be native speakers of French to do well in the exam, simply because it os designed for native speakers and even then not all of them... I'd say someone who was only at B2 in French isn't likely to do well in the Bac because their writing & comprehension won't be up to scratch.
If they get the Bac it is assumed that they are at B2 in their first foreign language and B1 in their second. That is the level we are testing to. The Bac is all you need to get into university here.
Please let me confuse you further then. Many years ago, a now well known journalist was a teenager who aspired to be a rock musician. He had a band inspired by the Byrds, famous for Turn! Turn! Turn! and Eight Miles High. He called his band The Sanguine Penguin. Such alliterations were currency at that time, we were young and all that. Which has nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU but what the heck!
No. I'm one of the apathetic :-) We've been here about 12 years & I've never felt the need to vote in the GB elections so far. I'm now registering to vote & will do until 'they' tell me I'm disenfranchised .
B2 plus allowance for dithering, to cater for people like yours truly!
:-D
Good old Hippocrates ;-) there are some wonderful mediaeval pictures of the Humours 'types'. I'd like to be Sanguine but I fear I'm probably Choleric ;-)