very valid comment Glen, make that three for the beer Brian ;-)
Glen you and I have agreed amicably to disagree, and would continue to do so over a beer or two. But little ditty it is not, I have been disturbed by some of the people who go beyond the pale and wanted to say it. Otherwise your point is right.
for some, and for many reasons, I think that's more than true Fiona ;-)
Mark, neither but I am looking at the 'original sin' bit as part of the work I am writing on children. If any side at all, perhaps Pelagian, but being a less than able philosopher perhaps I shall be simpler and say how much I like the word 'cuddle' introduced here since as my children get older there seem to be less of them in my life!
Debate is one thing, and keenly held beliefs; crassness and insult another, and up with those perhaps, we should not put. I like this site because for the most part it is warm and cuddly and supportive and helpful. Wherever you get relatively anonymous debate there will be people who abuse the anonymity. Perhaps then the few who do not post names and faces should be more encouraged to do so.
Brian, are you by inclination or instinct an Augustinian or a Pelagian? Either way maybe you could be more philosophical about this.
Just looked at the comments of Facebook and see that some people think I do not like SFN or France. Errrr? Is it not the opposite in both cases since I like both a lot? Maybe something in such responses says something people like me are missing?
I think Brian makes some valid points. I used to use "Anglo-French" forums a lot when we came here in 2004, but some of the unpleasant behaviours that he describes became more and more prevalent - so in the end I gave up posting on them as it was not a nice experience, with too many people arguing over most trivial matters, endlessly pontificating and refusing to accept that there might be another valid point of view. I haven't used forums regularly for about three years now.
I've always taken the name of this website to be tongue-in-cheek, as Brian describes it, but elsewhere I have read criticism of this site because of its name and the supposed attitude of some users towards France and the French. That is just what I have read - I haven't used the site at all since signing up out of curiosity, and I have not formed any opinion about it. My attention was only drawn to this discussion by a post on Facebook.
Phil
Jeannette, quoting people or naming people as examples goes past my general point here. So I defer. It would serve no useful purpose and perhaps provoke what I am drawing attention to here. No thanks.
Gretchen. How about getting better before doing this although you seem perfectly lucid to me and probably to others. I recommend a cognac bigger than you normally would and hot soup. OK neither is probably as good as medicine but they have a feelgood factor which is worth much more when one is feeling poorly.
Lunchtime already... But not two hours, here we are terribly Germanic and do a half hour thing. What a wonderfully contrasting continent we live on!
i DO need Survive France - we could never have moved and lived here for the last year without the help, support and encouragement of people on this site... there are fools on here like anywhere else - i don't read their posts or blogs or discussions - i just ignore them...
i met an english woman last month who's lived here for 8 years - doesn't speak any french as she 'loathes the frogs' ... saw her in the market at the weekend - she said hello - i said **** ** (it's the irish in me) and walked away...
(c&j, please feel free to delete my post - it's your site)
But James, you also have immense humour which comes through often. You have given as good as you have got. All of that is fine. Michael is pointing out the bizarreness of what is an 'English' attitude here which no doubt somebody French in England, Japan or outer space might also have. Perhaps some of all nations do that where they are, it is strange and somewhat confusing. Andrew is right, most people are reasonable, Exceptions happen and some of them are exceptional beyond that and that is where with those who are 'extreme' I am beginning to get nervous. But yes, as Andrew says too, here I am wasting working time...
I didn't read the whole article. I have had very little time lately on here. I've felt welcome, made my opinion known and advertise on here. Have had a lovely working relationship with the Higginsons. They are not the SFN police force and everyone has their say. There's a human quality called self-control that is very helpful on forums when the emotions run high. Some dislocated ideas in this post.... just very busy....
When ever we adopt a country, there is a love-hate relationship with it at times. I have survived France quite well. 20+ years
Gets a thumbs up from me - I haven't even tried any of the other sites; I took one look at most of them and ran a mile. WHat I like here is the real mixture of, on the whole, reasonable people and the sharing of information. Like you, I can't see why some people stay in France or come here in the first place but they obviously have their reasons and it's their life. Survive France, no I don't need any help thank you, I'm surviving no problem and don't actually need this site but I enjoy it and like Brian often waste too much time chatting when I should be working (exactly the case as I type!) but that's the joy of being self employed (except that i'll be working over the weekend again to meet deadlines!) and the joy of sharing experiences and ideas and being able to help others who need advice or are a little lost amongst the weird and wonderful customes and culture of their new country, add bureaucracy to that too ;-)
Let's keep it on the rails, stay positive in what are pretty dire times financially wherever you live and open up and enjoy France rather than just surviving it ;-)
Hayley, but surely that is my left shoulder! I was in the middle of a kingsized bed with a daughter on either side after a 14 hour flight so not in my normal/natural position, so a deception there perhaps. I think maybe the fog got at me today, but otherwise it was OK. These are thoughts, not the gospel according to me. I think I have simply not liked some of the things said to some people (not to me as it happens) but as Gretchen and you are saying in your respective ways, it is to be expected.
On the French, jury is out for me. SW France is strange anyway because it is such a 'crossroads' place. There are no 'French' here but Occitans, Gascognes, second and third generation Italians, Spanish and Portuguese, plus the 'Anglais'. In reality, of course there are many French, but take in the local version and... Unhappy, no way, get used to the more morose Italians in the Lombard regions just below my OH's bit of Switzerland and these people seem joyous! Perhaps my Calvinistic upbringing makes me just a tad like them, but I laugh that off, if you see my point. I am Libran, balanced I am supposed to be, which I am not I know. Right now I am reading Augustine and Pelagius, now that is enough to make one glum - all that stuff about 'sin'. Anyway, if harm is meant then that is malign behaviour that will drive us all away in time, if not then perhaps we need to look at our own checks and balances - yeah me too!
This is my first post on this website - i feel compelled to remark on your above post - i run other internet forums and find similar issues - it seems that humans love to hide behind their keyboards to cast out sweeping statements and ill conceived logic -
I have only lived in France for a year but i have come across many 'ex-pats' who have these 'anti French' views - even one man that said 'when you are in my house you are in a little piece of England' - which i found quite bizarre.... i am finding parts of the beaurocratic system very difficult to understand but i feel that it is my job to learn how to understand the system. French etiquette is also, at times, unfathomable, but again it is my duty to try if I want to be accepted here. I also encounter mild racism towards me, yet again, that too is my issue (i do not yet speak French very well and I so often come across as ignorant or arrogant - when the truth is i am embarrassed and scared).
I hope your 'disruptive' members become less of a problem for you and some semblance of harmony is restored - though i do fear harsh measures (like banning by IP address) are probably what is needed.
best wishes
MC
Cote D' Armour
EXCELLENT! Succinct, to the point and echoes something I've been thinking about for a while. I am sick of the whingers. As has already been well covered in other discussions, don't come (or stay) in France if you don't like it. I love my live here (true, we are relative newbies - less than a year) but I embrace it all including the problems. One should have figured out by the age of 20 that life will throw a few curved balls at you. I have no problem if someone puts up a post about a specific difficulty they are having - examples include the chasse marching over your land, difficulties with teachers, etc., and there was one post by a member in relation to the attitude of her French husband. Many of us rowed in with advice, suggestions, offers of tea and sympathy. Personally, I don't think I have ever put up a negative post, except once, and that was to respond to a member who said Ireland's economic difficulties were caused by the Irish people. I objected to that fairly strongly, as I saw it as a slur on an entire nation. I hope to continue to be a positive member here and I would like to see SFN as a "positive" forum.