One thing (I hope) we can all agree on. Each electorate must have the opportunity to vote and must vote for itself. In the EU, the UK has done this and we must respect the result of the vote. In some other countries which have held referendums on the EU, this has regrettably not happened. Just saying.
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Hi Bob… I know I could respect the UK/EU vote more, if it had not lacked some basic ground rules …but, it sadly allowed such a close call… to be called a Decision 
.
Roughly 17m For and roughly 16m Against… and those millions who did not vote… It is clear (to me at least) that the Leave decision cannot truly be held as representative of The People of the UK.
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I understand your argument Stella, and yet by that logic we would not
accept the majority vote in any election, in the UK or elsewhere. Just
to take one example, Macron is the clear winner in the French elections
- I am sure you will agree. And yet, taking account of the over 51%
abstention, only 16% of the electorate actually have voted for his
manifesto. Would you therefore say that he is not representative of the
French people’s choice?
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Snide? Moi? 
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Ha ha Bob… you will really get me started if you are not careful.
My complaint, if such it is… is that there was not a clear line set… to pass, to win…a line showing a suitable difference between Leave and Stay… a clear show of strength (eg perhaps 70% of voters)…accepting nearly 50/50 is too tight for such a serious question, in my own view…
Regarding Macron. Yesterday was spent discussing French politics with many, many voters…Seems there is hope, at grass-roots, of a new 6th Republic, with a change of Constitution… which will enable the minorities to “be heard”. Seems many folk do not feel that the French President actually represents them and/or their hopes…so why have they voted for his Legislators, I asked this morning…who knows the answer to that…
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@Eugenie Name calling is not permitted here, please refrain.
http://www.survivefrance.com/t/argumentum-ad-hominem-survive-france-guidelines/11538/
Thank you, James, for trying to keep the discussion from getting personal.
Eugenie,
If you read the book I mentioned in my first post you will, I think, have a better understanding of why some people have a different point of view to yours.
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Exactly Stella, should have been a 2 to 1 majority needed for something so important. Just goes to show that the people who run (the) countries have much less intelligence than we are led to believe - amazes me how they manage to get into “public” school and oxbridge, shouldn’t think money has anything to do with it though…
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As a matter of fact Mark, though public schools aren’t all particularly academically selective even now, back in the day going to Oxford or Cambridge had nothing to do with income, because we could all get grants - it was just about how good you were at exams and how passionate you were about your subject and how you interviewed. Even now my old college has loads of undergraduates who pay nothing at all because it is rich enough (thanks to getting bequests over the past getting on for 600 years and having Keynes as a bursar) to support undergraduates itself by not charging any fees and giving them maintenance grants. And people like me occasionally bung them a tenner when there is one to spare because it is terrible to think that a brilliant mind could miss out on higher education there for financial reasons.
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I voted leave because when I see the senior management of the EU they don’t present a representative imagine of your European folk; what I see are white, middle/old heterosexual Christian men, but Europeans are not just this group, they are women, LGBT, the youth, black, asian, Muslim, Jewish and Hindus. Where are the people being represented at senior management level from these groups? It is hard for many Europeans to identify themselves with the EU’s senior management. They need to develop in this area to be inclusive of all Europeans.
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The UK is a unique country in many ways and the diversity of it’s politicians is one of the things I think many countries are envious of, however that is a strange reason for voting to leave the EU IMO. If you voted Tory last week you must be appalled by the alliance with the DUP whose stance on LGBT rights and gay marriage is so different.
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By asking the question, you are making the assumption that everybody votes for what seems to be beneficial for them personally. This assumes that we all vote in a selfish manor.
I believe that the EU is corrupt, unbeneficial to most counties and is in the process of falling apart. I believe that a vote for brexit will hasten this process for the benefit of the vast majority of people living in Europe.
You only have to see the panic by the ‘vested interests’ in trying to get this vote reversed to identify who will be the winners & who will be the losers.
Yes, I live here in France and enjoy my life here, and yes this brexit may make things more difficult for ME but overall I consider that my vote should be a vote for what I consider best for society overall.
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Just out of interest, why do you think that you have the right to vote on behalf of citizens of other EU countries?
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David, in the same way that one casts a vote in the General Election not just for oneself and family, but for the country, society as a whole and hopefully a better world overall. I’m not sure I would call it a ‘right’ but one’s political choice, and ultimately the winning political party, has an effect in Europe and beyond. I too believe that an EU with much reduced political power is preferable. Maybe citizens in other EU countries will see that exit from the EU is possible and be encouraged to press for their own referendum … who knows.
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What a strange answer. People in most European countries do not see the EU in the same way as those who want to leave in Britain. Yes, you have the right to vote for yourself and your country in general (but not on behalf of other adults who have their own vote) but to claim to be voting on behalf of the citizens of another country whose citizens neither want not are taking part in a leave or stay referendum is arrogant beyond belief!
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I’m not sure what you mean by “not on behalf of other adults who have their own vote”, I’m voting for what I think is best for the world, same way as you presumably. Someone who votes one way thinks they know better than the voters who cast their cross in the other box and wants their chosen party to win and put their policies in force. But I think we’re splitting hairs here David. I haven’t claimed to be voting on behalf of anybody else, but I’d like to think that the Leave decision will have encouraged other EU sceptics in other countries to keep their ‘faith’ as it were. I really can’t imagine why you think that’s arrogant.
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I’d say that’s pretty arrogant - as if the majority of EU countries give a stuff about what the UK does any more! Most are bored stiff with the whole bloody mess and can’t wait to see the back of the UK so they can get on with important stuff!!
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Thank you for writing that Simon. That is exactly as I see it. I just don’t understand the, ‘We’ll lead the way then perhaps Jonnie Foreigner will see the light’ attitude when in my experience, and I left the UK in April 1986, the vast majority of Europeans see the likes of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage as something quaint, very British but not really their cup of coffee and the thought of leaving a harmonious, trading block of 28 neighbouring countries is something that only a fool would consider.
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Yep - the UK accounts for less than 1% of the World’s population - nothing to be arrogant about…
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That’s a considered and clever response, not 
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