Why is the notaire hassling me?

Legal Advice
21

This is due to French successoral law, as a direct descendant of the deceased. You are only “involved” to the extent that your written authorisation is required in order to either accept, or specifically refuse, the inheritance (however insignificant that might be).

Further information can be found here. The notary is no doubt pressuring you to sign the documents because of the deadlines applicable after the opening of the successoral procedure. If no preference has been expressed, either voluntarily, or through action of one of the other heirs, you are deemed to have accepted the succession by default (see the article linked above).

I know you have said that you don’t want to pay the costs of using a solicitor, or French attorney, but you do need to be brought up to speed as to which deadlines are applicable to which choices, and the ins and outs of any given choice you might make and when to make it.

If the notary in question is your father and step-mother’s lifelong personal notary, then despite their stated independence, they will probably be disinclined to fill you in on all of the what-ifs, simply because the time spent explaining to you will be time they won’t be able to recover from the fee they get for handling successions (% of the value of the estate).

22

Dear Lutonlass :slightly_smiling_face:
Reading your posting and much of the resulting feedback. I err on the side of caution. You need all the facts - that you don’t have. French property laws involve any living relatives, especially children, direct descendants. Whilst you explain you don’t want to inherit you need a clear set of facts and figures ahead of you - this matter will not be finalised until you are involved. Take your time and get some much needed help. Copy and paste from the French document into Google translate (or Chat GPT) will give you a translation into English, free online. Possibly the Fiduciary or Notaire may be required to send you an accurate translation into English. Be methodical and Good luck. :slightly_smiling_face:

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23

This may seem cynical but as you are estranged and have no inheritance expectation I would say sign nothing. I’m pretty sure as a UK citizen and resident nothing compels you to sign anything, take the French approach and say no unless compelled to do otherwise

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24

Thanks all, I will revisit after Christmas and will definitely give updates! I really appreciate all the responses. Wish you all a great Christmas time x

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25

I suggest you read @David_Spardo 's thread and the difficulties he’s been encountering because of his less than cooperative (step?) children in the UK. I would suggest it is not a kind approach.

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26

Hi,
You need to be careful with this.
I am not certain but… A tontine applies where 2 or more people buy a property and accept that the last survivor will own the property… A usufruit applies where there are inheritors but the surviving spouse can live in the property until death.
These are 2 contradictory regulations which should not apply to a property.
If interested I can give you the name and contact details of a notaire we have used who speaks excellent English.
Regards., Good luck, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

27

I’m helping with inheritance stuff right now for a friend, my only advice: try and clarify things with this notaire, and then get yourself your own notaire so he can check your interests and that you are indeed owed nothing. Seeing your dad was a French taxpayer I think you are owed at least part of anything left in the bank accounts, even though the house is owned by her wife now if they used tontine. Your dad will have done that to protect her from you possibly.

I don’t really trust notaires to bother doing their job properly when you’re abroad (I’m French in the UK, and I’m struggling, even though I hand picked a notaire who is much less useless than most).

You can pick a notaire anywhere in France, in spite of the tradition, it doesn’t have to be somewhere near where your father died.

Signing a power of attorney could just mean that they want to represent you physically for things to be signed more quickly, but these days you can do most things with online signatures with the real paperwork so that’s a little bit dodgy, and notaires are not necessarily as trustworthy as they should be.
If the notaire is harassing you though, it’s very likely because your dad’s wife is harassing them.

FYI the person inheriting the most (your dad’s wife) picks the main notaire where all the paperwork is centralised. It is still your right to take one separately to ensure your interests to anything are checked, and notaires you use for yourself in the middle of an inheritance have a fixed fee defined by the state, iirc it was something like €800 last year.

If you hate her and are sure your dad had nothing apart from the house, and do not want to spend the money, you can just block everyone and they will be unable to go on with some of the procedures for 10? years. Although there must be special treatment for the spouse, I know that someone who disputes stuff/doesn’t reply in inheritance can wreak absolute havoc and disarray, blocking the money for years. I’m also confused about how things go seeing that you cannot be left nothing, it’s against the law, yet a house purchased via tontine isn’t included in the succession. So it is also possible to challenge that the tontine was made to disinherit you rather than protect her from you. Lots of questions to ask a qualified person like a notaire.

Also, you can get some initial help with any notaire for free, some are quite happy to help by appointment. It’s easier to go in person for this but you’ll find someone if you persevere.

Feel free to send me the notaire’s info with all personal details redacted of course, I’ve been deep in that stuff for the past 3 years, I’ll be able to understand why he needs the poa.

As a side note, do not worry, there is little incidence on your side if you do nothing right now, do not let them pressure you (pressuring you and other psychological games is all they have to get you to do what they want). The successors have a duty to fill in the taxes within 6 months after the death, but the penalty for not doing so is a percentage of the tax dues. Seeing your taxable threshold as a child will not be reached, I believe it won’t cost you anything if it’s late.

There’s also a reddit, r/conseiljuridique, where people sometimes ask things in English. Mind scammers getting into your dms because you mentioned inheritance.

I am not a lawyer so please double check what I am saying. These are only a few pointers from my recent experience and understanding.

PS: they may be worried about this:

La tontine est un contrat aléatoire puisqu’il y a un aléa. Pour que la tontine ne soit pas requalifiée en donation, vous devez avoir financé le bien à deux et avoir une espérance de vie similaire. Si ce n’est pas le cas, vos héritiers et les héritiers de votre partenaire pourront demander la requalification en donation, ce qui permettrait d’ouvrir des droits aux héritiers.

Pour avoir une espérance de vie similaire, vous ne devez pas avoir une grande différence d’âge ou avoir un mauvais état de santé pour l’un.

De même, vous risquez la requalification en donation déguisée si seulement un de vous finance le bien ou s’il y a une grande inégalité entre vos apports.

(source: https://www.alexia.fr/fiche/9875/tontine.htm)

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28

This! The tontine plus usufruit seem calculated to do something fishy. Whatever you do, don’t let them push you into signing a power of attorney. Once they have that they can do just what you like. I know you re saying you aren’t interested in te inheritance but, under French law, you have a right to it as his daughter. If he has organized things so that his current wife gets occupancy till she dies that’s as may be but afterwards you arethe benefuciary unless they have children together.

29

There is nothing ‘fishy’ about protecting your spouse from ‘estranged’ step-children. The tontine clause is straight-forward, the survivor is deemed to have been the owner from day 1. If the deceased spouse was considerably older than the surviving spouse or in sick health at the time of the purchase, perhaps the French courts would get involved. A tontine must be done at the time of purchase not after and neither spouse can possibly know who is dying first. If someone has been estranged for years, why does that person want to create problems for the survivor.

30

Perhaps I’ve got the wrong end of the stick, but I think the reason for people thinking/suggesting “wait a minute, don’t sign anything yet” is because the details of the Estate are not clear.

It’s always made best sense to me: Sign nothing unless you are certain sure that you have understood what the Document says…
and what the Result will be of Signing said Document (be it good, bad or indifferent).

A few years ago, we had several Brits in difficult circumstances because they had signed a Document which they did not understand… aaaargh.

31

I agree that no POA should be signed until everything is made clear and from what I understand the son should be given an inventory of what is in the estate.

32

Nothing unreasonable in a man wishing to provide for his widow after his death and especially to ensure she has a roof over her head and in this case can stay in the property they jointly owned for the rest of her life. Even if French law enforces that ‘real property’ or a share in it i.e. immeubles ie houses and real estate, must be left to blood heirs.

So I also thuight it incorrect to describe as “fishy” the normal arrangements of tontine and usufruit intended to achieve these protections for the survivor’s remaining life .

However once that protection is no longer needed for the survivor, it makes sense to keep options open and decide at that future time.

This, regardless of the reasons for the estrangement. No one knows what the world will be in the future and all sorts of circumstances can change. So the tenor of the advice here is keep your options open and wait.

In particular to do this, as the OP had spotted, there would be danger in signing any procuration. If you must deal with any particular thing even if it takes more time and work for OP / notaire, it is your right and good sense not to give a procuration as you will then lose control of what is going on.

33

In a conversation with a good and reputable notaire they said that since the new regulation (article 9.13) some notaires are now insisting on getting confirmation from all possible inheritor children that they renounce the succession. It seems to me that this may be what this notaire is doing, but in a very clumsy way!

Hold your ground. Offer to sign and send a standard renouncement letter bu nothing else.

34

I wish mine would.