I hope it all turns out well, all the best to you.
Some advice please regarding my application for French citizenship. This being our sixth year of permanent residence we fall foul of section 11.6 CASIER JUDICIAIRE ETRANGER. Being UK citizens who lived in the UK for the 5 years prior to our move to France we need to produce a document similar to the French judicial report, however, there isn't one. So after some research we have found 3 alternatives.1, A local (in our case Kent) police check for £10. 2, An ACRO issued Police Certificate which is required for people who want to emigrate to a number of countries including Australia, Belgium, Canada, USA cost £45 or surprisingly a certificate issued by "Disclosure Scotland" who assure me that they supply certificates for all areas of the UK at a cost of £25 which can be done online if I can give them a a "c/o" address in the UK to which the documents will be sent....and all for the princely sum of £25.
For Irish citizens :
Extrait de Casier Judiciaire
You can obtain the equivalent of a Casier judiciaire (a record of any prosecutions and convictions in Ireland) by contacting the Garda Stations responsible for the area in which the individual last resided in Ireland. Addresses of Garda Stations can be found here.
If you require a Casier Judiciaire from the French Authorities, please complete the form available on www.cjn.justice.gouv.fr and post it to:
CASIER JUDICIAIRE NATIONAL
107 rue du Landreau
44317 NANTES CEDEX 3
Further details about the Casier judicicaire may be found on their website. Only the person concerned may request a Casier judiciaire and it is not possible to make a request on behalf of another person.
https://www.cjn.justice.gouv.fr/cjn/b3/eje20
Ministère de la Justice
VOS DÉMARCHES EN LIGNE
Direction des affaires criminelles et des grâces
CASIER JUDICIAIRE NATIONAL
Service en ligne officiel et gratuit de demande d'extrait de casier judiciaire (bulletin n°3)
Thanks for your comments but unfortunately they are not relevant in this case as we are UK citizens and the French authorities will, I understand, automatically undertake a search of our present term of residence with Nantes.
I have owned a property here for 16 years, travel extensively but continue to pay self-employed tax in the UK and maintain a UK address for this. I use my E1-11 where necessary but have travel insurance from the UK. I am now 65 so technically retired, but still work all over the place as a self-employed person as an art curator (including France.) I'm not so worried about myself but more about the yourng people having their mobility limited by Brexit. I fly the European flag over my house but apart that from have done nothing yet. I suppose I'll just have to keep renewing my visa if it comes to that. My Maire knows who I am, I have a bank account here and a French car, I speak enough French but nothing else to show that I live here. Am I burying my head in the sand? Or are there some basic things I should start doing?
Update for those seeking the half-way house option: une carte de séjour UE - séjour permanent
I've just had an interesting chat with the service des étrangers at my local préfecture and, although nothing stops you from applying, all dossiers from brits seeking a carte de séjour UE - séjour permanent will no longer be processed following the Brexit vote. I've been told the decision has come direct from the ministry involved and that until there's a change in that stance (and he said that could take years as they're not going to change anything until something happens) it just isn't worth taking along your completed dossier! In a way I can understand as they're not quite sure chat our future statut and rights will be so they don't know which carte de séjour we will be ultimately entitled to, or not!
Any one had other reactions at their local préfecture (mine's Albi in the Tarn) ?
Don't give up your day-job to become a poet :-)
If it ain't broke, don't fix it,
but If it ain't fixed, Brexit.
Andrew that is most interesting, disturbing but not surprising on reflection and it poses two questions for me.
1) Are you being told a "local" version more related to don't do anhything yet till we know more, so please don't give us work, and "we will use the ministry as our excuse!" In other words is your experience local or national as you ask
2) There are a number of non-EU citizens who are members of SFN and it would be useful to know their experiences of being non-EU expats in France. My impression from reading posts over the years, is that it doesn't make that much difference in terms of health, social services, taxes, legal rights, etc. If my impression is correct then perhaps all of our worries and actions are just not necessary?
I would really appreciate some feedback from non-EU expats or anyone with more insights than I have.
Peter S
Peter, good questions: I was told it was national as the directive has come down from on high but can't confirm that - has anyone else tried, especially after all the articles posted here (connexion et al) advising people to apply!
Any other european nationalities can of course still apply, their situation is obviously unchanged as is that of non-EU citizens.
As for rights to the sécu etc. no it doesn't make a blind bit of difference anyway - it's just a carte de séjour you can use as ID and proof that you have the right to be here. I don't think any of us have got anything to worry about as we have acquired rights (to stay living and working in France) but I can understand that those not working/retired are a little in the dark as to continued health cover etc...
I don't think any of us have got anything to worry about as we have acquired rights (to stay living and working in France)
Could you clarify that, please, Andrew?
Acquired rights under the Vienna convention + Hollande has already said Brits will not be kicked out (provided the French aren't kicked out of the UK, that is!). As I understand it any changes will be for the future i.e. for those who may wish to move here and live in France after the Brexit.
I am talking here about the right to stay living and working in France NOT access to health care and benefits - as I understand it, that will depend on what is negotiated and may mean retirees here having to fund their healthcare themselves :-(
Andrew
I am with you. It seems to me that there are several possible categories of expats in France.
1) Retirees like me where we can prove we have acqired rights with evidence that we have paid taxes, have an "adequate" income, etc. My issue is access to health care and other benefits, though I am paying into the French social system by default as I understand it from my accountant.
2) Working families who are in employment (or run their own businesses) where they are payimg taxes and making social contributions.
3) Working families with children born in France (thus have French nationality be default - I believe)
Incidentally, my accountant said the Carte Sejour was only useful for paying for food at the supermarket with a cheque as its possession does NOT infer any rights you don't have automatically.
I am prompted to raise this whole set of questions as it is being argued:
a) According to the media, that the UK should just leave the EU without doing any negotiations, thus giving the UK the alleged immediate benefits of not being in the EU, and then negotiate a new relationship.
b) I am tempted to apply for a new Carte Sejour at my prefecture and see what happens. At worst they can invite me to take a long walk on a short pier but they might be positive (and break the habits of a lifetime!)
Peter
It really does depend,it seems what T May plans for the French who live and work in UK.
Will she suddenly refuse them healthcare?
Very complicated! I have various 'foreign' friends who have lived many years in UK.....if there is ' an
eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth' situation then who knows. But that is just a statment of war!
And, infact by leaving Europe....in a way that is a declaration of war as there is now a dIvided country and a further divorce from europe.
Some of the voters to leave have, infact trod on their own feet and diminished the well being of family
members who live abroad. Some of the 'leavers ' have no idea of what fireworks they have set off.
We have lived here for almost nine year and paid taxes here from day one. We found an accountant
before we arrived in France.
Not sure what will happen to me before this is all sorted out.....what will be will be!
BUT it could be very streesful for many.
I can also understand a tinge of bitterness which is apparent with some French people....
and although they are bright and intelligent they are angered by the foolish British which have
been triggered into making reckless decisions by members of parliment flirting with their own ego.
That's a pertinent question, Anna. Why would British citizens be treated any more favourably than, for example, Americans coming to France to live?
' The young woman I saw was pleasant, but pointed out that my application was incomplete. I had not stated why I wanted to go to France. I said “I have a house in France that I want to spend time at.” “Madam” she said “that is not a reason.” '
http://www.transitionsabroad.com/listings/living/articles/living-in-france-how-to-get-residency-card.shtml
Ah OK. Although acccording to the Connexion, the Vienna convention is a bit of a red herring in this context since France didn't sign it (France was the only EU state not to sign).
http://www.connexionfrance.com/Vienna-Convention-1969-expats-rights-residence-Brexit-17867-view-article.html
Peter:
1. Sounds right but will depend on your financial situation as to whether you're paying in or not and to what extent.
2. Yes, my situation (+ my OH and kids are French)
3. No - kids aren't automatically French unless one of their parents is French (the case of our kids). They have to ask for French nationality but as I understand it , it's a whole lot easier than for foreigners not born here.
a. the withdrawal of the UK has to be "negotiated" - 40 odd years of deals and treaties to un-pick and sort out, as far as I see it that's all part of the withdrawal process.
b. Yep, just give the "service étrangers" at your préfecture a call and ask ;-)
Haven't read it all but they do seem to agree on what I said:
However we explain here that none of the three experts we consulted – an experienced international lawyer and two university law specialists – thought any rights relating to matters like benefits, pensions or healthcare would be protected by the Vienna Convention, with possible exceptions for residence rights or the right not to have a work contract terminated.
I like this comment too:
“So it comes down to what is politically realistic, not what is legally entrenched. And what is realistic is to seek arrangements that don’t cause huge disruption and suffering; so I think expats will not be told to up sticks and leave."
Personally, I've been working and paying into the system for over 10 years here, I'm pacs'd to my French OH and our kids are French, I really can't see them being able to tell me to "go home" under any "realistic/normal" post-brexit conditions...
Well Andrew by the time all this is sorted we would have been paying all the taxes
here for 10 years and I am pacs'd to with an Irishman.
In some respects it depends on whether the UK does an EU deal or a bilateral country by country deal.
The EU deal is one negotiation but every member has a right of veto, so could take years
The bilateral approach would be easier but then will vary country by country.
My primary concern is Health care costs. So since approx 50% of the expats in France are elderly but few elderly French expats in the UK, the UK gov't may be required to continue to pay any costs we incur in France, much as at present. But there are voices in the Gov 't that take the view "you have left the UK, so you cannot have your cake and eat it" - we have been called traitors by some.