The issue is that she’s start recieving her occupational pension at sixty but her state pension won’t kick in until 66 or 67 (it was 66 for me but I think they’ve pushed it out for young things like her 
) So we have six or seven years where she’s not a dependent and doesn’t have her own S1. I must admit I’ve put that issue in the pending tray.
Having benefitted for years from the information on French-Property.com I felt morally bound to subscribe to their paid for newsletter when they announced it some time ago. Concidentally this came into my mailbox from them a couple of hours ago… " Working in France after State Pension Age" with the following interesting paragraph.
"President Macron is promising to simplify and improve the ability to combine employment and retirement, if he is reelected. He has stated: “on the one hand by simplifying the mechanisms for gradual retirement and, on the other hand, by allowing a much greater incentive to benefit from one’s retirement while continuing to earn contribution rights, which is one of the weaknesses of the current system of combining employment and retirement”.
1 Like
There could be a household issue, because the major benefit of an S1 is being exempt from two of the social charges - which are calculated as part of your household tax declaration. There are separate areas for déclarant 1 and 2 so this may well be doable that you and your income are exempt, but working wife isn’t. However I would not want to risk this before confirming this is the case! And doing the calculation to make sure that the €3000 earnings are more than the exemption would provide.
I have heard fo situations where a couple have chosen to make individual Declarations to French Tax Folk…
Of course, can’t find anything about it now… but I’m sure I didn’t dream it… so it might be worth asking the Tax Folk about doing just this…
Yes indeed. Hence my suggestion to ask the tax people how they deal with this, I think it is the only way to be sure.
2 Likes
Unless one is in the process of divorcing the only situation I know of is where you live in separate houses. The UK marriage regime is “separation de biens”, but also need to be apart. We managed this when first moved as I stayed resident in UK to look after my mother, and OH was here. The tax people didn’t like it at all!
C’est la principale exception pour les couples qui sont toujours mariés. L’imposition commune est quasiment obligatoire sauf pour le cas suivant : régime de mariage de la séparation des biens (ou participation aux acquêts) ET que chaque époux vive dans une maison séparée.
1 Like
You’re quite right! Sorry, didn’t mean to suggest anything would be simple! The ‘paper trail’ for HMRC is the form, and I had to send a payslip, presumably to show I was paying NI in the UK (don;t know why they can’t look it up themselves, but there you go…)
And one has to fill in the form very carefully- it does of course ask all about the nature and frequency of the work - that’s why i did say maybe the work may not be judged regular enough.
Maybe, - as I read it the current S1 was UK issued - so yes, an Irish one might unleash the cat among the pigeons - it would be a different country paying for the healthcare. So yes, not simple…
Though don’t see any reason why the OP’s wife could not just do 75% of the work in Ireland, pay whatever tax there, but not bother with an S1 in Ireland (which on reflection likely they wouldn’t be eligible for anyway). Apologies for muddy waters.
Hi All
Thanks for the comments, my wife checked and she has 14 trimesters, not sure what sort of French Pension that equates to ( she will also be entitled to a full Uk pension if she pays three more missing years).
I read somewhere that if you collect a small French pension then that invalidates your Uk right to an S1 does anyone know if that is correct? The advice I read was to ignore a small French pension?
Interesting what Macron is saying I did not realise it was a problem to continue working after getting your French Pension. Chatting with a local French Farmer though he told me to keep quite about his farming activities as he was on a Pension from a big electricity Company, I did not connect that until this thread.
Regards
Nick
Yes, as France is then your competent state. But what the threshold of “small” is, and how easy it is to ignore it, I do not know. 14 trimestres is not a lot. 120 is the threshold for being able to get a full pension, but most people seem to need 166.
I must admit I did wonder for quite some time why my farmer neighbour was still working in his seventies. I noticed online that his wealth manager son seemed to own the farm and all the operations rather than him. Only after a while did I realise that it was likely the same thing that you said; that he officially ‘retired’ and started to collect his pension a decade or more ago but ‘once a farmer always a farmer’ he couldn’t go sit at home and twiddle his thumbs, so the farm is owned by his son (who to be fair to him is certainly not afraid to roll up his sleeves himself despite it not being his primary occupation) and the farmer will presumably keep doing what he loves until he drops. I don’t know how common this sort of thing is here, but if it’s as rigid as it seems I can understand why people who have worked all their lives for their pension but don’t want to give up entirely doing what they love may want to bend the rules a little.
If France is your competent state ie the last place you worked then why should you want an S1 as you are fully integrated in the French system.
Presumably you gave DWP details of your wife’s work in France when you applied, in which case I guess they will have checked, or not, but either way if they have issued the S1 then I would not worry about it.
Because you would loose the exemption from paying the two social charges on your income, effectively meaning you pay an extra 9.7% each year. Also applies to capital gains tax if have a second property anywhere, or want to sell business premises.
Also means no longer pay for your healthcare, and have access back to NHS services.
It’s a dependant’s S1 and was specifically told has to close ME.
I think part of the issue is that if you carry on working, deductions are made from your pension in line with how much you earn. However it is quite complicated and I think it is probably the compication that puts people off, as well as losing part of their pension.
1 Like
She was told that by France not by the UK. I would guess that France wondered why the UK had issued an S1 to a person who according to their records was working in France, which in theory should not happen, and decided the most pragmatic way to resolve it was to get the person to stop working in France. From CPAM’s point of view, why make difficulties and insist on carrying on funding somebody that the UK was willing to fund.
As I said it is usually only 3-5k a year and it is not every year. When I got my S1 I asked for a dependant S1 for my wife. She had not had any work for the past 2 years during Covid so when we decided to register her as an S1 dependant it seemed fine.
Then a month later along comes some work.
I am not sure what you mean by registering her working as a French ME with the UK DWP aren’t we are out of the UK system?
Wasnt there something in the Brexit agreement allowing Cds holders to still get access to NHS?
No I did not meanregister, just inform them. But on second thoughts I think I am confused. I believe that when you apply for a pension they ask about any periods you have lived or worked outside the UK, but probably they do not ask when you apply for an S1, so please ignore that colmment!
1 Like
Yes Sandcastle
I was not asked when I applied for my pension and as I had the required years in the Uk system.
Reds
Nick