I've just watched the video of the bloke from Barnsley who voted to leave the EU "to keep all the Africans out". No words.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-muslims_uk_576e558ce4b08d2c563937ff
Very sad. This is also sad in another way https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale
They must have thought that a population naive enough ( et je suis poli!) to vote Cameron in twice would appreciate that level of argument. Or did he sway the decision all by himself?
Catherine, perhaps he should receive a Barnsley chop, somewhere very tender.
Vero, I don't honestly think an Independant Scotland could afford to be an EC member state. They currently have financial help now from London based Treasury, that would stop. They will have to pay their own EC contribution. I envisage Scottish University Students would not get free funding as at present. If all the talk about Turkey is correct. Scotland also will have 35 points to be able to satisfy. Oil income is running out, and the fact the Treasury took most of that money years ago, is not relevant now. There will be much less income from Oil than before. Also the tax paying population in Scotland is not great! Will Scotland have to pick up the tab for expat and other Scottish Pensioners. Also for their own NHS. I can imagine IDS rubbing his hands with glee at the prospect of saving that money as well if he became PM or was back in new Cabinet.
Not to mention the cost to the Scottish economy for setting all the systems up. It was looking unlikely this morning that the EC would allow Scotland to immediately join. There are probably several other things I've forgotten to mention.
I think there will be greater turmoil and expense for Scotland than there is now in UK overall, if a 2nd Independence Referendum goes ahead there. Yes I'd also love to see an Independant Scotland in its own right - that's my heart talking. My head says it's a great financial risk and burden for them.
The only plus point if Scotland was told they can join the EC, MAY be from Inward Investment that is rapidly planning on leaving England.
Sadly I think Nicola Sturgeon is acting before thinking things out properly, before rushing off to Brussels next week, when given circumstances are so different now to 2014 and 1 week ago, she doesn't necessarily know what the people will want overall either, as they have time to reflect.
It doesn't seem to me they, the population, can have it both ways - remain a part of UK Union and the EU.
As for me I'm genetically half Scottish/English with a bit of Irish thrown in, also feeling a little French given how long I've been here now, but my heart lies with a United Kingdom, I don't want to lose all that heritage in others eyes, especially as I only have an English accent!
Britons living in the EU
For the 1.3 million Britons living in other European U countries, Thursdayâs vote has ushered in a protracted period of uncertainty.
Dominic Grieve, a former attorney general, has argued that British expats could in theory become illegal immigrants overnight if Britain does not maintain some form of freedom of movement as part of its settlement with the EU. But few see mass expulsions as a realistic possibility.
Some lawyers have argued that British expats living in the EU at the time of Brexit would have âacquired rightsâ under the 1969 Vienna convention on the law of treaties. Others, though, say these might not extend much beyond residency and property rights â and could well exclude rights to benefits, pensions and healthcare.
source : http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/24/what-does-brexit-mean-for-eu-citizens-in-britain-and-brits-in-europe
I think it is a great financial risk and as I said above I'm not convinced that with a deficit running at 7% at the moment it can be got down to 3% to meet conditions for EU integration. I do not, however, see how - in view of the unanimity of Scottish regions in voting remain - the political climate can possibly be constructive, and in view of the comments on articles in the press from the daily mail to the new statesman via the economist & sundry others, I think that Scotland is in for a very very rough ride whichever way things go. The great and good in Scotland who were staunchly opposed to iScotland in 2014 have radically changed their tune (I posted a link or two on referendum night). I am Scottish and lived & was educated up to university level in Scotland, my family are there still, tweed tories all of them, some of them journalists so I think I am fairly well-informed when I say that this result of the referendum is highly likely to result in a decisive vote to leave the 'U' K whatever the way to achieve that result may hold. I don't have your sentimental attachment to the Union because as you know I'm French and Scottish, not English, not Irish, not Welsh: I don't see our interests lying in continued attachment to England and Wales in the foreseeable future; god knows the present context is bad enough. If the way ahead is iScotland in the EU with a southern neighbour out of it, then so be it: the people have spoken, after all.
And have a look at this: https://twitter.com/sgardner/status/747059883128692737
Robert, the ones Cameron "lined up" were the business leaders (employers), economists,scientists, professors, historians - also from many of the elite classes who went to University and all also more knowledgeable and expert in their own fields than any MP, many of whom often come from being a Local Councillor within their own generally local field as well as university Graduates, some with lesser degrees than the experts.
Note I say generally because I know there are lawyers, bankers, investment broker MP's, to wit one Nigel Farage an MEP, who are not as knowledgeable or experienced as the 'experts' who expressed their own professional, not necessarily political, viewpoint in numerous TV debates and Interviews, no matter who asked them. If I need an operation I expect to be advised by a Doctor not a Designer! I don't blame Cameron, or whoever, for seeking expert opinions on the effects of a Brexit.
Just a great shame not enough people listened to them or accepted the advice given and voted accordingly! They the Experts, are the ones who are being proved right already. I'm no lover of the EU/EC because of their undemocratic policies. However the sensible rules and regulations that Member States have adhered to, have been made for the benefit of all Europeans, to safeguard lives and jobs both at home and when on European holidays. I accept they and some rules are not perfect - but then are we ourselves!
Already the EC Are acknowledging they didn't get it right and changes will come. I'm not holding my breath on the speed of those changes either. They still don't understand they are dealing with 27 different cultures, hell will freeze over before all different cultures will "mix and marry" with 100% certainty of total unequivocal understanding and acceptance.
"Already the EC Are acknowledging they didn't get it right" Get what right? Who has said what? Apart from general polite regret and bemusement, I mean.
"They still don't understand they are dealing with 27 different cultures" if 'they' means the EU, of course they do. That's precisely what makes things so complicated and leads to the top-heavy mastodont that we all complain about, even when we recognise we're better in than out.
Ah, but given most Politicians attitudes to expats, as opposed to those nationals still in their home countries, we never rank high on their agendas! Look at the attitude of the pays de Calais Conseil Generale this weekend. He wants the UK Border moved from Calais to Dover and then put all the immigrants who should have been processed by the 1st EU country they arrived in and weren't, but are now living in Calais camps put on boats and shoved across the water.
It wouldn't surprise me if one day a New Convention is made which will deprive expats of any rights, should present or Future Member States also have Referendums on Remain/Leave EU. Again expats would vote Remain, but their numbers of votes wouldn't necessarily have enough effect on results, as has just happened to us!
But Shirley, what has that got to do with expat EU citizens living elsewhere in the EU? (I mean: " Look at the attitude of the pays de Calais Conseil Generale this weekend. He wants the UK Border moved from Calais to Dover and then put all the immigrants who should have been processed by the 1st EU country they arrived in and weren't, but are now living in Calais camps put on boats and shoved across the water". )
Admitting the asylum-seekers currently in the Pas de Calais would be a wonderful humanitarian gesture.
The Remain part of the voters spent enough time accusing the pro-Brexit group of racism, and that version has gone worldwide, so this would be a golden opportunity of putting one's words into action.
Macron threatened months ago to ship the 'Jungle Deux' occupants over to England in the event of Brexit.
Hi Shirley, another guy who does know what is what. This was a bi-lateral agreement between UK and France and nothing to do with the EU at all.
A PS re the cultures part of your question Vero. I accept they know the meaning of the word culture, but don't live daily lives in different countries all the time. They are Belguim based. My experiences here in France, have taught me a hell of a lot about and differences between, French and UK culture, language in the way things are phrased, food/diet. Housing in rental markets, family structures and allegiances. Shopping, Economies, Working and lunch hours, Education, workers attitudes.
Many EU Laws are made that encompass daily life. One size doesn't fit all nationalities and cultures. It mainly been the little almost irrelevant laws, eg 'straight bananas' for Gods sake! I remember while still living in UK that a fruit& veg market stall holder ended up committing suicide, because he was constantly being harangued by Trading Standards Officers trying to force him to comply with the EU regulation on that and other similiar things, re length, height or whatever applying to the goods he sold. Even the fact he used scales to weigh in lbs not kgs, his elderly customers were not used to metric weights then!
There are many good and not so good differences that just can't be legislated for, and many that can be, which I welcome.
I thought France didn't sign the Vienna Treaty.
Not at all Hilary. That could all have been done in advance of the vote with a real feasible blueprint for the future (if possible) presented by the Leave loonies. Instead you think a few brainstorming sessions (excluding experts because Brexit doesn't believe any of them) over the next six months will suffice to map out the future of 60,000,000 plus people. Preposterous, if you don't mind me saying so.
Hi Jane, yes I know it was a Governmental Bi-lateral agreement and was pleased to see the French Government v quickly repudiated remarks, saying the Border would stay as is (at least for the time being I presume).
It was the Departmental CG who jumped the Gun after all. Vero also asked what it has to do with the EU, it's all now part of the short and longer term repercussions of Brexit, which affects other member states as well as UK.
Many things will be said here or elsewhere on TV, by other EU or not Nationalities, because the Brexit will affect their lives also, but it doesn't mean we should ignore them because they are expressing their own opinions, concerns and wishes, just as we are.
Oh, there's the politics expert .
Scotland will not secede. I'll bet you didn't anticipate a 'leave' vote, and now you're clutching at a worn-out thread of hope in order not to blow a fuse.
Scottish independence is inevitable, and the racist English 'leavers' have made sure of that.
This is doing the rounds at the moment for all us Londoners that didn't vote for this. Very funny
https://www.facebook.com/1057369737681811/videos/1061182583967193/?pnref=story
Oh, to be in England (no thanks)
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-referendum-racism_uk_576fe161e4b08d2c56396075