Geraint Davies MP tables Early Day Motion 243 - NEEDS SIGNATURES FROM MPs

Brexit
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61

Where did I say people weren't well informed? (Or for that matter, that I "ignore both UK TV and radio" - it's true I don't have UK TV and I don't listen to BBC radio, but I don't live in a total media vacuum either ;-) in fact I work in the media.)

People are well informed. People have information - stats, vox pop, vox pol et al - coming out of their ears. But being well informed, even to the point of information overload, is not the same as soaking in the full 360° experience yourself. You can look at panoramic photos taken from the top of Mount Everest from every which angle, and read all the facts and figures and descriptions from people who have been there and geographers who have analysed the rock and the soil. You can be impressed, you can discuss it, you can tell other people about it, you can know so much information that you consider yourself a bit of an expert on the subject, but you can only recycle what you've been told, most of which will be biased to some extent in one direction or the other. It's an intellectual exercise; you cannot add anything new to the debate because you have nothing of your own to add. You can't challenge what other people have claimed, and say that your experience is different. Because you haven't experienced it.

But obviously my point is not getting across so I won't keep trying.

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Your question is very valid Jane, but is probably best addressed to David Cameron.

Indeed the exchange rates are not so good at present, but not really 'dire' yet. I was here when it was virtual 1 to 1 parity during the winter of 2008/9, so today's rate of 1.165 isn't so bad by comparison.

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Probably people all over the world informing themselves as to what all the fuss in the UK was about. Certainly the referendum was well featured in American newscasts according to our family there.

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Yes, well it is a rather big topic so I should imagine it would attract world wide interest....even in America!

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Robert, I remember paying 15 per cent interest on our mortgage but I wouldn't want it to happen again.

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You obviously assume Robert, that the current generation of expat UK pensioners had a Crystal Ball before retirement. Also there is a benefit, via exchange rates, to having a bank account in both countries, especially when shopping, paying the plane fare, vehicle fuel, then you have a bank card for both!

Wheres your crystal ball kept? No - one saw this referendum coming except Nigel Farage of course!

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I have just emailed below, to my MP Douglas Carswell, Valerie. It may be of use to others!

Dear Douglas first congratulations, its great seeing TV give you so much air time, I follow you with interest, given you are still my MP, even though I could not get your support for the 15 year Rule regarding expat voting rights.

However so much has moved on since then and yes, now what happens since the Leave Vote very much affects me, and others, in terms of UK EU negotiations once, when or if Article 50 is invoked. I therefore ask that you please read and support Geraint Davies MP, EDM.

In or out of EU, surely we are all entitled to at least be aware of the ramifications, whether resident in UK or EU, because it will impact our futures, expats more so if we are not allowed to remain in EU. I don't want to apply for French dual Nationality either just to be able to live in France. I'm British and happy to remain so.

Without a Carte de Sejour, proof and guarantee of residence rights from France (like many other expats here) we really are at the mercy of the politicians now and would be treated and processed under current laws as immigrants, once or if UK leaves the EU.

Can you imagine me, - a pensioner, no home to go to with a hired lorry load of my furniture and belongings bought over many years and with several health conditions, - being granted the right to enter and live in the UK again? With all the current thoughts being aired on TV and media by Politicians (especially the Tories) on the criteria immigrants wanting to enter the UK will have to meet, I can't imagine being given that permission!

In all good faith, I retired from UK and moved to France with Freedom of Movement rights as an EU citizen, I didn't have a Crystal Ball then and I don't now! However now it's Limbo we live in. We don't know where that country is or what rights any of us will have. U.K. and EU Member state Politicians are not telling us with any certainty and this is why Geraint Davies Motion should be supported.

Thank you, I trust I may rely on your support for my request. This is not about the rights or wrongs of the Referendum Result, it's about the aftermath of the consequences for people who are not involved in any decision making now.

Shirley Morgan, ************** 72140 .

http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2016-17/243

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I'm afraid your assumption isn't correct, Shirley....

In this household, as soon as the referendum was announced as happening, in January 2013 I believe, we knew there was a very strong chance we would be leaving the EU. Anyone who has roots in Wales or N England, especially, will know there is a real dis-connect from the rest of UK, the problem being the have's and have-nots. Not just income, but prospects to improve oneself, which has been a gulf widening for years now. To find that people previously 'shut up' by the establishment and elite would finally have a voice, meant that voice would be heard. Nothing to do with being far-right, as most were Labour supporters!

We speeded up our slow plans for eventual return to UK, having already purchased a small foothold back there, by down-sizing here (this year) and moving into a much smaller place to serve as a second home for the future. The income released from that was to be returned to UK to implement money for a permanent home there eventually. All this was done with much stress and difficulty, but to retain control of our own destiny.

So, when we had the funds finally in place, which was before the referendum, we placed our FX order on avo 22nd, at a fixed rate with our broker, advising him the vote will be leave, and the market will de-stabilise for a short while, and may have a crash.....he was rather cockily 'gob-smacked' (a pattern forming?) and we now know why, from the feeding frenzy of the traders who called so wrongly in vast numbers, causing huge de-stabilising, briefly. We now all know the way the democratic vote went, but the rate we fixed was no-where near the hysteric doom and gloom predictions of that very talented George Osborne. In fact the rate, although down a bit now compared to over 3 weeks ago, is in our opinion kept down because of the continued attempts to overturn democracy and keep the uncertainty going, as per on this particular topic of forum!

In our time here we've received 1.46 and 1.1 to sterling, and no doubt the rates will always sway back and forth, but for UK business it is now an opportunity to trade with a weak pound, and this was a vote pertaining to the UK. This result shouldn't have come as a total shock, if folks were taking an all-round view of matters, rather than the limited view presented by the media along with their attempts to link it to fascism, biggotry, racism, etc, still on-going. We all make choices in life and have to live with them. As advised, if people also feel so strongly that France is their forever home, then seeking French nationality, as swiftly as possible, seems obvious to me. Those of us who voted out whilst living here did so also with the hope that residency rights will not be affected for those here, and that all will come good for the EU machine in the future, embracing the UK in an entirely new but better way. It is looking very good so far on both fronts.

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Jane, Robert, et al.

I didnt see or read the Manifesto word for Word. Which Manifesto anyway, 2010 or 2015?

For the record, I voted Remain in the hopes of there being Democratic reform in the EC! No chance now unless more Member States leave or threaten to.

I I also voted Remain for reasons of the grants and aid they Gave to the UK over the years to help regenerate Cities, Science, Universities, you name it - listen to the Bodies that said before and since the result, what being IN the EC means to them. I also voted for the Young in the EC and their futures. I was Thinking of others, not exclusively about myself, when I cast my vote! To be honest I thought Remain would win given the experts and others who were all interviewed in the weeks leading up to 23 June.

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Shirley, with more than five years residence you are able to apply for a Carte de Sejour.

Not the outcome we wanted, but I am sure that you will not be thrown out.

How much more it will cost us to live here is another matter.

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I'm not sure the cost of living per se will change... just the amount of income derived from UK sources such as pensions etc.

72

Graham did you know a Company called NEST now manages Gov workplace Pension schemes.

I wonder how much the NEST cut/profit is from the Contributions?

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Shirley. Not sure I understand how that impacts on the statement about cost of living made by Jane which is what I responded to...

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Only your reference to Pensions Graham, when I write a reply I can only see your comment, not the others. I wasn't aware your Pension comment was answering Jane.

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Something else we learn about Government Celia.....from your MP.

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First cupboard on the left, second shelf down, next to the box marked 'Forward Planning'.

Boy Scout Motto Shirley ---- Be Prepared !

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Hi Shirley,

I must say that having read your e-mail to Mr Carswell, I do find it rather confusing. In you first paragraph your words appear to indicate that you are a British Citizen, and yet in your fifth paragraph you seem to allude to being in need of permission to re-enter the UK and live there again. The two scenarios simply cannot co-exist Shirley.

Additionally, your first paragraph indicates that you may well have lived here in Fraance for some time, and yet you say that you are without a Carte de Sejour. Are you not aware that if you have lived in France for more than 5 years you are entitled to apply for a Permanent Residency Carte de Sejour under French national law ?

All those who have lived lawfully in France for more than 5 years have no need to fear losing their right of residency here because of Brexit. Just go to your Prefecture and apply for the card.

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But is there any point in applying at this stage? If you apply now, you'll get a carte de séjour as an EU citizen - which as an EU citizen you don't need. Once you cease being an EU citizen, would that card not become irrelevant and would you not then a different carte de séjour, ie a cds for a non EU citizen, meaning that you would have to apply all over again?

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Hi Robert, there were comments flying around on SFN occasionally about difficulties of expats trying to return to UK permanently and would need to fulfill conditions Cameron has laid for immigrants, which I'd heard repeated on TV since the Vote, that there may be a possibility of applying to us also. Hence the reason for my email to D C, my MP. I would like him to ask questions in Parliament or elsewhere so we hear from horses mouth, Gov stance on the matter. Yes I am 100% British. I have no plans, for the present to return there, but think expats need some reassurance as to our potential status should we wish to do so. Re France, yes I've applied twice for CdS and in both Mairies offices in 2 different debts, been told no don't need one. Last telephone advice from JD at pls Help France to me last year, was that applications ar not being processed for the time being, possibly because because of overwhelming numbers being applied for. It's the Mairie that issues them and mine certainly isn't overwhelmed, with only 3 diff British families in the whole of the commune. I'm only one actually in this village where the Mairie bureau located! I of them I know, from asking her, has never applied for one, lived here 7 years and has no intention of doing so! She doesn't vote here or in UK, both of which I'm registered to do so. As we know, the same administrative matters in France are dealt with differently all over the country - very bizarre, I rule - I million different interpretations ...I jest of course.

For myself I'm just going to sit it out on both sides of the fence and wait till dust settles everywhere! My prefecture, if I knew where it is located in Le Mans, is 40kms from me, I have no transport since car accident, can't drive now and no public transport here, It's complicated but the truth. I'm supposed to be out of this rented house by Mar 2017 if not before, just been given 6 months notice this week, for spurious but legal reasons to quit, with no idea how I'm going to manage and organise now, compared to when I arrived. I'm in middle of legal action I took against French landlady for a catalogue of her lies and lack of reparation to this property on things she had hidden with fresh decoration. Inherent damp and consequences of, takes time to remanifest again. Her letter of notice also says I'm responsible for making good all reparation necessary, which I know it to be true, so a copy of it is now in hands of my Avocat. So yes I know what laws exist for any matters relevant to me and my life in France - it's getting them complied with that's the difficult part! I return for completion of court proceedings in October, judge thinks we will reconcile, no chance on either side, even my Avocat, Social Worker and the Huissier I started with, said that!

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Hi Anna,

Indeed it may be the case that a second application might be needed in due course, however, already being in possession of a permanent Carte de Sejour would undoubtedly ease and speed up such an application. Therefore I do feel that applying at this time is a good idea.

Also it is true that you do not need such a card at this time, and that therefore the authorities often try to use this as grounds for not accepting an application. However, the French Gov't website is very clear on the point that we can apply for such a card if we wish to do so. It is just a matter of being politely insistent when making the application. Printing off the information from this link will no doubt help to overcome any reluctance to accept the application.

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F22116