I am wondering how many of you are for Brexit and how many against it?

I think it is quite clear in my post.

Ah got it Anna ! I am really hopeless at Techie stuff!!!
I have a big problem with sequences so can not read maps very well,
can not drive, use a sewing machine, follow recipes or choregraphy.
However I can cook and create/establish recipes and I could danceā€¦
once upon a time.
So putting pics on here or anywhere else is not possible for me.

Christine, I find your remarks quite offensive. It is not necessary to be so rude on a public forum. You donā€™t know me and you really have no idea what kind of person I am. We were asked to comment on Brexit. Please refrain from being personal.

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I think that, perhaps some of us have swopped complaisancy with compassion.

We are not all able to rise up from poor beginings and develop an empire of

properties or become a wiz kid in the banking world.

It is easy to turn one s nose up in the face of good fortune and look downā€¦knowing that others have been less lucky.

Being careful, organised and a hard worker is to be admired but it does not prepare

you when you are faced with the damage that others create.

It is almost impossible for most of the survivors in France to feel safe unless we

are nonchalant or have a very large cushion of currency under our beds and

properties in other countries should we need to escape.

Europe is dividing like an amoeba and with each division there is less strength.

United we may have gained energy.

I couldnā€™t agree more Barbara, because I am fortunate enough to have a house elsewhere doesnā€™t mean that I donā€™t have compassion. I have one of my sons living in France with his three children who are half French and struggles to make a living. The EU hardliners (Juncker and Tusk) are threatening to make life difficult for British Expats but we gave to remember that there are as many French nationals living in the U.K. (Mainly London) as Bordeaux (thatā€™s why London is known as Frances 6th biggest city). Itā€™s very easy to judge others unless you know them and their circumstances.

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ā€œFeeling safeā€ seems very important to you, Barbara.

I donā€™t think thereā€™s ever been a phase in my adult life when Iā€™ve felt safe as such. I donā€™t think life offers that kind of guarantee. Some people have safe jobs, plenty of money and insurance but even then feeling safe is an illusion because nobody knows whatā€™s round the corner - accidents, ill health, the economy going belly up, etc. Personally, I chose very early on not to ā€œdoā€ safe jobs and money in the bank, that was never my priority, so Iā€™ve had a wing and a prayer sort of life all the way through but Iā€™ve enjoyed it. Iā€™m actually amazed that Iā€™ve got to 60 still solvent and relatively unscathed, and I feel lucky to have so many good times to look back on, so in a way even if I get kicked in the teeth over Brexit I wonā€™t feel that Iā€™ve had too bad a deal overall, you have to take the swings with the roundabouts or whatever it is they say. But the point I was trying to get round to is that the best feeling of safety has to come from within, it has to be confidence in your own ability to be adaptable and resilient and to be able to cope no matter what. I think the only people who feel safe in the sense that they believe life has a duty to be good to them, are either people who live stolidly risk-averse lives, which to me would be very boring (moving abroad is a risk) and/or who have no imagination. From your posts Barbara I donā€™t think youā€™ve lived a boring life and I think you have imagination, so your feeling of safety has to come from within.

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But a friend of mine has 2 jobs (he is in his fouties with plenty of energy)

and a couple of propertiesā€¦he is finding it hard to manageā€¦even with good calculated

investments and working for established companies.

He voted for Europeā€¦he feels like I do that this is going to be uglyā€¦well it is nowā€¦

and painfull.

His wife my close friend is from Portugual and came here a long time ago and

married my dear friend (who came from Calcutta) she re married after his death

some years ago.

She is settled in UK of course but now feels unwelcome.

What is so good about all this?

Whether you are saying that there are too many polish people or that the Irish builders

have taken all the building jobs in London or that the chamber maids at the Hilton Park Lane or all Spanishā€¦or that the Muslims are all dangerous.

Just stop and re examine the whole picture.

Anna the compassionate side of you has not come through on all your posts.

ā€œI am all right Jackā€ comes across ā€¦

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No I do not think I have had a boring lifeā€¦no way.

Yes at this stage in my life I do want ā€œsafetyā€

And I feel that there are many people who crave it too.

I want to see real people in the world not robots with false

smiles on their faces.

Transparency!

What Iā€™m saying Barbara is that Iā€™m not all right Jack but I donā€™t blame the world for that. A lot of it has to do with expectations.ā€œThere is nothing either bad or good but that thinking makes it soā€, as the Bard said, and thereā€™s truth in it. Glass a quarter full or glass three-quarters empty?

I do look at the whole picture, I see what happened in Alep, thatā€™s the world we live in.

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Not sure who Anna is :wink: I have family who are polish, sons godfather was Indian (sadly no longer alive) and I get very angry when I hear about race hatred. I think some future control, whether a points based system or other, will be necessary in UK as elsewhere in Europe. Even Merkel is backtracking on her open door policy. I think we are going to see quite a shake up in the EU with or without Brexit. I believe in keeping an open mind, remember I did vote to remain.

Angela yes you said you voted remain!
so now please tell me why you are so ā€œeasy goingā€ about all this?

You have a gay daughter, children in Franceā€¦grand children?
if Le Penn gets in she is saying that there will be no free schooling for

foreign childrenā€¦I guesse that the grand children are French.

A the Polish relations well they certainly should receive some respectā€¦

abandoning them to UK history is sad.

Definitely against Brexit. But the British were never totally committed to the project anyway, so maybe Europe will be better off without them. But I still have a small hope that something will happen to sabotage the whole foolish business.

p.s. People keep asking my wife, ā€œWhen is your husband going home?ā€

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Does your wife say ā€œwe are both home!ā€
Yes, of course I hope that a little miracle will happen to sabotage
the whole foolish business!

Actually there is a lot of ignorance about the status of ex-pats. Many (even well educated) people are convinced that France pays for our health care.
But, sadly, once people have made up their minds about something, factual evidence does not convince them.

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I always thought the EU was a democratic institution, however, since the democratic vote of the UK (and by the way I voted to stay), I am beginning to think it is more of a ā€˜Mafiaā€™ type institution. You can join the EU but you can never leave it without painful consequences. Such has been the rhetoric from leaders of ā€˜Member Statesā€™. I expected adult, sensible behaviour from EU leaders and an attempt to understand and seek a solution that would cause least damage all round. Instead we have seen childish, spiteful, playground behaviour with the UK now seen as the enemy of the EU because it dared to have a voice! We all need to consider the ā€˜biggerā€™ picture and hope that common sense will prevail, adult discussions will take place around the negotiating table and a workable solution can be found. All the pre-guessing together with predictions of doom and gloom are really not helping anyone.

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All Iā€™ve seen from the EU leaders is frustration that five months on, no progress has been made and Ms May still wonā€™t give any them indication of her proposed deal. Theyā€™ve made it pretty clear that the ball is in her court - the UK wants to change the relationship, itā€™s up to them to say what they want the new relationship to look like. Beyond the ridiculous ā€œcake and eat itā€ business I donā€™t think the EU has ruled anything out has it?
But then, I donā€™t read the British papers.

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But thatā€™s nonsense as no discussions can take place until Article 50 has been triggered? As I understand it, it is only when Article 50 is triggered that our formal intention to leave is registered and only then can any negotians begin with the Member States regarding the terms of exit.

There is a legal procedure to be followed so I understand that we cannot present our agenda for discussion to EU leaders until Article 50 has actually been triggered. I believe we have given a date for Article 50 to be triggered by end of March 2017 so any frustration by EU leaders is misplaced as far as I can see. We are simply following the procedures laid down by the EU?

I donā€™t read British newspapers either as I live and work in France.

The EU are unhappy that the UK has delayed triggering Article 50. They are being forced to wait before being able to plan their future with and without Britain while all the time the British press, and some UK politicians, are coming up with unbelievable cake and eat it deals that they claim will be open for Britain to pick and choose from. The other EU countries have pointed out, quite rightly, that any deals forged will have to suit them as much as Britain. That is not spiteful, childish behaviour but cold, hard facts. Whatever comes out in the wash there will be painful consequences a plenty.

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Thereā€™s frustration on both sides but Iā€™m with Elaine on this. The EU is showing a petty and vindictive side (Junckers in particular) as a deterrent to anybody else who wants to leave their club, almost ā€œhow dare youā€.

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I havenā€™t seen that. I have seen a strong feeling that the UK should have made sure it had all its ducks in a row before holding a referendum with such far-reaching consequences, rather than holding the referendum first and then wasting everyoneā€™s time looking for its ducks and arguing about how to catch them. And I have seen the EU reiterating and standing up for its principles, but I donā€™t find that unreasonable; I havenā€™t seen ā€œhow dare you leaveā€ although I have seen ā€œhow dare you imagine you can shrug off the devoirs and keep the droitsā€. I would appreciate it if you could point me to some of this petty vindicativeness side of the coin because to be honest Iā€™m basically a Figaro reader and anything that isnā€™t in there tends to pass me by. I obviously need to look more widely to get a more balanced picture, so any links welcome please (not the Mail though because itā€™s bad for my blood pressure).

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