Hello there. I’m wondering if anyone can recommend a reliable lawyer, ideally familiar with both English and French property law? I do read and speak French pretty well so following legal docs in French is not usually a problem.
I bought a house in 2020 and I suspect my notaires at the time passed on my personal information to a third party (also a lawyer) without my permission, so I’m reluctant to go back to them. I am looking for someone “sympa” but good at their job, who is not liable to inflate the costs because I am British but will charge a fair price.
What I want to do is to arrange for my sons to receive my property in France now, with a “usufruit” arrangement for myself during my lifetime so I can live in it when I retire. I understand this allows you to avoid inheritance tax, and it would also allow us to avoid capital gains tax providing the property remains in the ownership of the same people for long enough. So by the time I eventually cop it my sons will be able to sell the house and will not owe lots of money to the State.
I also wonder, though, whether it’s better to transfer the property to my children before or after renovation. Does it even make a difference?
Thanks, both. Yes, billybutcher is right–I want to transfer the fiscal ownership now. Would be interested if anyone can recommend a good notaire for this.
I am afraid I cannot but I trust your notaire when you find them will look carefully with you at whether there is a risk of this being requalified as a disguised gift. It may depend on factors such as your age. If it appears this was done solely for the purposes of avoiding tax, the fisc may act.
After all if there was no scrutiny, everybody would be doing it!
Any notaire can do a transfer of ownership. Just find one.
But, just be sure that two-notaires are involved - one for you and the other for the person who will receive ownership.
I frankly would not trust one notaire to do a simple interpersonal transfer. Two very different pairs-of-eyes on a contract in France is a BARE MINIMUM!
But since succession taxes and property transactions are both the notaire’s area of expertise, and since it is a notaire who will ultimately deal with the succession, do you not think they are in the best position to decide what will and will not pass muster?
The law says what it says. A tax advisor cannot influence how the notaire will interpret what has been done, when succession is administered.
Notaires normally regard it as part of their job, when dealing with a property sale, to discuss inheritance issues with the purchaser. The same as when they advise on writing your will. They do not aim to claw as much tax as they can from the individual. They aim to use their detailed understanding of the law ensure that the individual understands their options and arranges their affairs in order to arrange their affairs as tax efficiently as possible. That is what impartial means.
I am not sure why there seems to be so much mistrust of notaires!
Yet you answered that yourself, only moments previously.
I’m slightly playing Devil’s advocate here (as well as being a little tongue-in-cheek) but most people don’t trust tax collectors to tell them how to minimise their tax bill.
I appreciate that the situation, legal and cultural norms differ in France but I presume there is still a role for independant tax advisers, as there is in the UK?
Because they are not “on your side”. There is no such thing as “my” notaire who will look at a situation from my point of view and give me the best advice for me.
If you say so.
I suppose I have never really seen it as being on one side or the other. I accept that these people are impartial. But however much “on your side” an advisor might be, I do not see how he can do more than explain to you what your options are and advise you on the most beneficial path to choose. Which is exactly what our notaire did, and what the staff at the tax office do.
But clearly I am naive/have been lucky.
That may be what you have needed and that’s fine. But I get the feeling that the original poster is looking for advice. In which case, surely, it’s a good idea to find someone who will go that extra mile as an adviser.
Like @Sandcastle I have found a notaire can be useful.
I was a “fly on the wall” when a friend visited a Notaire for advice.
Just there to make sure both sides understood one another.
It helped that we had the questions which needed answers, already written down (in French and English).
The Notaire wanted to know what exactly my friend hoped to achieve and went to some pains to go through every question… offering a possible answer to each and explaining the ramifications…
it was also important to discover how choosing one answer would/might affect other questions/answers.
@Ever12every
I’m not sure my friend would have received such thorough advice, if he hadn’t asked all the questions… but I would suggest that this is perhaps one route for folk to try.
Decide what you want to achieve and make that very, very clear.
Having said all this… I’ve also had ghastly experiences with another notaire… so perhaps it just depends on the luck of the draw …
They are generally impartial, yes. But you will see that the actual contract is a long, long piece of work to read. And, mistakes can be made.
Which is why, were I buying a property, I would never want a Notaire to handle the same property for me as s/he does for the owner. Selling it is a bit less likely to obtain contractual mistakes when two notaires are involved in the transaction. I’d want a Notaire from another office handling contractual matters for me.
Notaires are public servants in France and they have a responsibility to the government - they do not (big disclaimer: AIUI) actually have a legal responsibility to tell you whether what you wish to do is optimal.
I think they have a responsibility to be honest if you ask the right questions questions though.
For “reasons” i am more than passingly familiar with the job of a residential property lawyer in the UK and they are definitely their client’s advocate. I’m only familiar with the role of the Notaire through a single property purchase and what people have posted on SF but I don’t get the impression that the Notaire is anyone’s advocate per se - they act to make sure that transactions are legal, recorded and taxed correctly. They also don’t, so far as I am aware, offer “tax advise” as a function in and of itself.
I get the impression you do not actually have a notaire here?
Ours offers advice on many matters, including where no tax collection is involved, and often free of charge, because we are her clients.
