This is a newly renovated building. The three apartments are currently occupied for the first time. We have discovered that a shower drain in a closet sized bathroom without a door in a bedroom is TMI collecting fecal matter. Without going into detail it is disgusting and smells. My husband discovered this when cleaning before friends arrived from the US. We hoped that if no one used the shower that the problem could be kept under wraps while our friends were here. It wasn’t. Husband has written to the landlord who in his usual do nothing attitude has asked a million questions about the use of the shower. He stated that there is no connection between the plumbing lines of the toilet (in an even smaller closet with no door in the same bedroom) and the shower. He is incorrect as husband noticed today that when the toilet is flushed there is some movement in the shower drain. Our downstairs neighbor works for a huissier and with the huissier is already holding a part of the rent in escrow for various reasons. He had a coat in a closet that became completely moldy because of the dampness in his apartment. He also has had an uninstalled oven sitting in his living room since April. The building isn’t properly insulated but getting back to our shower drain problem. We have asked the landlord to state his intentions on addressing the problem. His response keeps referring to the gas buildup that can happen if a shower isn’t used. He says to pour water down the drain ignoring the true issue. This is a sewage problem that I suspect is illegal. The hussiers are on vacation until after the rent is due on January 1. I called a very supportive gentleman at Salubrité but he too is on vacation presumably until after January 1. How can the withholding (possibly in an escrow account) of the rent be approached in the interim? Or please help with suggestions as to what to do and how to proceed? Thank you so much for listening to this story.
From your description it sounds as though the piston effect of the toilet flushing water passing down the waste pipe is creating a vacuum behind it which is emptying the shower drain U bend and allowing gases from the waste system to emerge up through the shower drain. Shower tray U bends are often minimal due to restricted space under the shower tray, and so can be easily drained by excess vacuum created by the sudden passing of the large amount of water whooshing along the waste pipe from the toilet. A rudimentary test for this is as follows. 1. Ventilate the room and then slowly pour about 1 litre of water into the shower tray drain. 2. Don’t flush the toilet for a couple of hours and then put your nose close to the shower drain and see if you can smell anything nasty. If it pongs, then the problem is with the shower tray drain U bend —- like perhaps there isn’t one ! 3. If no unpleasant smell, then with your ear close to the shower drain, get a helper to flush the toilet. Listen for a slurping sort of sound similar to that produced when trying to suck up the last drops of a drink through a straw. If such a sound is heard, then it is the noise of the piston effect of the toilet water rushing down the waste pipe sucking the water out of the shower tray U bend. Wait a few minutes and see if the smell is coming back. If so, then the problem is the piston effect vacuum. This can be rectified by fitting an air admittance valve (sometimes called a ‘Durgo’ valve) to the waste pipe as close as possible to the toilet. Basically one makes a T joint on the top of the main 100mm waste pipe and connect a 40mm diam pipe to it. Bring that pipe up vertically beside the cistern and fit the air admittance valve to the open end of the pipe. Basically it is a one way valve for air that will allow air into the waste pipe but prevent air (and odours) from escaping out of it. This will provide an easy relief for the vacuum created by the toilet water ‘piston’ and will stop the shower drain U bend from being emptied by said vacuum.
One indicator you didn’t mention is the water level in the toilet bowl after flushing. If the level is lower than you would normally expect then that is also an indicator of an air admittance problem.
Obviously it is a problem that the landlord should fix and may well be a bit pricey to do if the waste plumbing cannot easily be accessed. The landlord’s excuse about a gas build up is a load of rubbish as all waste systems are required to be vented to the open air to prevent any build up of gas. It’s what we used to call a Stench Pipe in UK days of yore.
To say that there is no connection between the shower drain and the toilet waste is also rubbish. All the waste water from the kitchen sink, bath, shower, washbasin will all end up in the same pipe as the toilet outflow at some point. The landlord’s suggested remedy of pouring water into the shower drain will temporarily refill the shower U bend until the next time the toilet is flushed. So another way of establishing the root cause of the problem would be to religiously run a small amount of water into the shower drain immediately after each toilet flushing. Then if the problem goes away there is no doubt that it is air admittance (or rather a lack thereof) that is the basic problem.
I have found that if one can identify the cause of the problem, and then suggest a remedy, that often this can help smooth the way to getting it fixed. Let’s face it, the Landlord may also be unaware of what the likely root cause of the problem actually is, so being able to help him to help you may facilitate resolution of the issue.
Good luck.
Thank you for the comprehensive evaluation. The issue is that poop is coming up into the shower drain. The first time my husband saw this there was a fly in there too. I would think that the landlord would be proactive given the serious nature of the problem.
Are you be able to evaluate this situation?
With much appreciation
Difficult to say without being able to lay hands on the pipes, but two possibilities come to mind in the first instance bearing in mind the recent renovations;
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Some ‘clever clogs’ has joined the shower drain pipe to the underside of the main 100mm waste pipe instead of to the side or topside of it.
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Someone has fitted a curved ‘directional’ T joint the wrong way round so that waste is being directed towards the shower drain instead of away from it.
Either way it is clearly a problem with the layout of the waste pipes. From what you say about the absence of a door between the toilet and the bedroom it would seem that whoever did the renovation work did not think things through. There really should be a door on the toilet area with some form of ventilation (window or extraction fan) to take any unpleasant whiffs away and provide some privacy. Same for the shower room area as otherwise there will be issues of damp bedding from repeated use of the shower, especially in winter when the bedroom window is closed.
To be honest, I should think that the best answer would be if you can find alternative accommodation to rent, especially as your apartment is not the only one with problems.
I have seen and had to cure a similar issue where the flow T was connected around the wrong way, it actually directed poop into the bath, that and running down hill into the bath. Your problem with a shower is far worse due to the space as Robert mentioned. This unsanitary situation would be against any plumbing regulation so has to be cured.
Thank you for the very comprehensive assessment, including the bit about the lack of door. That is surely the landlord’s doing. He has stupidly cut corners anywhere he thought he could. The information that you provided about the lack of doors is of great interest. Others claimed previously that if it’s a “second” bathroom, it doesn’t have to have a door. This is a bizarre concept to me but I’m American. I appreciate your point about the air flow and dampness. The other issue in this apartment is the dampness.
I spoke with a government agent yesterday. The huissier our downstairs neighbor works for has returned to work today so hopefully we’ll be informed as to how to proceed.
Personally I’d like it all to blow up for the landlord.
Thank you so much
I should think that it may well be worth a visit to the Mairie to see if some sort of official inspection can be done to declare the place unfit for human habitation. There are rules governing minimum standards of rental property. It would be another way of putting pressure on the Landlord. Obviously he would not like that, but then I doubt that you actually wish to develop a friendship with him.
American, French, British, it matters not. Privacy, and effective ventilation of rooms containing toilets and baths / showers is universal, and the smaller the space, then the more vital that ventilation becomes.
Our own bathroom (shower, bath and toilet) has a PIR sensor that triggers a ceiling mounted extractor fan upon entering the room, and there is a timer that keeps the fan running for around 15 minutes after one leaves the room. The result is no condensation running down the walls, and no mold on the tiling at all.
By the way; Which Departement are you situated in ? The colder your zone the more important good insulation and ventilation becomes.
P.S. Don’t worry about being American. My wife is one of your compatriots so I understand where you are coming from concept wise.
Hello,
Thank you for your fantastic support.
In Bordeaux. There is a small plastic circle with a squarish vent in each of the closet toilet and shower rooms. There is also one in the larger bathroom. These things seem to serve no real purpose other than decorative.
I noticed that the metal window frames in both the larger bathroom and the bedroom on the windows that do not open and the window that opens a few inches on an angle are dripping wet. If I run my finger on them, water drips from my finger. This is definitely not a good sign.
We’re waiting until Monday to address this, hopefully with the huissier that the downstairs neighbor works for. I don’t get the idea of money going into an escrow account until the landlord fixes the problem. In the meantime the landlord isn’t providing what we’re supposed to be getting.
Will you explain why you think this apartment may be considered uninhabitable?
Kind regards to your American.
Thank you so much!
Those vents are probably connected to what in France is called a VMC, which is a centralised ventilation system that should be on all the time and is designed to reduce humidity in bathrooms, toilets and kitchens. The vents often open and close depending upon humidity and some have PIR sensors that trigger the vents to open. It could be that the VMC unit is either broken, faulty or just turned off at your tableau.
It shows that you could have paid the rent if the building was correct and that you were not simply creating issues to avoid paying the rent due.
If we can’t use half the apartment, should the landlord ultimately get the full rent for the time we couldn’t use it?
From what you have said it would seem that there are sewage gases entering the living space through the shower drain which I’m sure most people would agree is not good for your health. You have also said that there is excessive condensation on the window frames which indicates high humidity within the dwelling space. The dampness may well be permeating into clothes and bedding and encouraging mold growth which is also not good for your health.
Of course it is impossible to form a firm opinion without being able to actually see the apartment, but you may wish to consider having a professional inspection done to assist you in piling pressure onto the landlord.
You could start by having a look in the back of cupboards and built in wardrobes, and also behind any large pieces of furniture which stand against the wall. If you find any damp / mold patches then I suggest that you take photos making a note of the date they are taken.
Good luck.
For heavens sake, I have told you at least twice in a pm that fecal matter travelling into a house is considered a serious matter in France, and you should, nay, must report it to your Public Health.
Why have you not done this instead of faffing around with a Hussier? They have nothing to do with your situation.
I give up
@SashaZ May I suggest that if you have language difficulties in communicating with the Mairie or Public Health Authorities, that you may actually find it easier to do so in writing. Go to www.deepl.com where you can type in English [even American English 
] and the relevant translation into very good French will appear before your eyes. Then cut and paste the French text into a Word document that you can print, or indeed paste the French text directly into an e-mail. I’m sure that your Mairie will have an e-mail address on their website. Just do an online search for Mairie followed by the name of your commune. Remember that e-mail in French is either simply ‘mail’ or Courrier Electronique’.
If you want to get the landlords attention, don’t pay the rent, you cannot be thrown out in winter, only in spring, its the law in France.
I think I would be looking at moving elsewhere.
Yep, I agree, however right now whilst looking I would not pay any rent as the landlord is dismissive of the issue.
I wouldn’t recommend simply not paying, that will go against you. A renter cannot simply stop paying because they have an issue; the landlord/lady could take legal action to recuperate the funds not paid, and they might be liable for additional legal fees.
I speak from personal experience when a renter accused me of falsifying a DPE report (complete nonsense) and stopped paying on that basis. They had to cough up, and pay the hussier, myself and a court of law determined they’d breached their contract and so were forced to leave. Even if there is a legitimate reason, you can’t simply stop paying without potential consequences.
I hope the other person does get the issue resolved though, as it sounds thoroughly unpleasant, and is surely in breach of contract. I don’t understand why landlords think they can simply bypass their responsibilities; at the very least they should send somebody out to verify the problem.
The idea was to highten the Landlords appreciation of the problem. So long as you keep paying they keep ignoring you. They cannot throw you out so you are applying more weight to the issue
personally, I would have spoken with the Mairie long before now and asked their advice.
Many Brits bring their troubles/difficulties to our Mairie and the staff swiftly contact someone who can speak both languages to help everyone understand.
Why not give it a go? you’ve nothing to lose
Good Luck