Air France pilots suspended after fighting in cockpit

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Yikes! Apparently, the industry is having staffing problems, the result of which may be a general drop in quality.

Personally, I feel the less we all feel inclined to fly the better for the environment. Still, would love to hear what caused the fracas :grin:

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This article explains more… it seems the co-pilot refused to carry out the commander’s instructions during the climb out from Geneva. In aviation terms, the commander is always responsible for the conduct of the flight even though a subordinate may be pilot flying at any stage…

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Thank you for the update! Scrolling down your article it seems this is becoming a bit of a pattern. Insubordination would generally be a career limiting move but at least it wasn’t because of the drink :crazy_face:

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Human Factors and Crew Resource Management training is undertaken throughout a pilot’s career. How crew act or react with each other is extremely important and there is nothing to stop a junior member of crew questioning the commander’s actions in flight - what is important is the way it’s done…
The commander may have forgotten something, after all. No-one is infallible!
A good pilot is always learning…

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I didn’t see any reference to drink - did I miss it?

Being drunk in the cockpit is normally a career ending move (and the “legal limit” is zero).

However, these days co-pilots and even attendants are encouraged to speak up if something is wrong - there have been instances in the past where the guy (and it is usually a guy even though there are female pilots) in the left seat has made the wrong decision but no one felt that they could challenge it.

So it is not automatically insubordination if the co-pilot disagrees with the PIC (pilot in command) - that will have to come out of an investigation.

there wasn’t… I think that Susannah was being mischievous :wink:

Imprisonment is the usual penalty.

different terminology these days…
the co-pilot can be the pilot flying or the pilot not flying but is the handling pilot but there is always ever, only one commander usually based on seniority. There may be two captains on board of equal rank for example, and they will determine between them who is commander for the avoidance of doubt.
Further explanation here

<deity> that sounds like a “Yes, Minister” sketch - I can just imagine Sir Humphrey Appleby reading that lot out :rofl:

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brilliant, isn’t it… usually great fun in the ops room with that…

I had the joy of flying back from Plovdiv in Bulgaria on a Balkan airline TU 154. Probably mid 80’s, I’d blagged an upgrade so was in the comfier seats at the front, the cockpit door was left wide open, both pilots had their feet up on the instrument panel under the windshield drinking beer.
Nice view of London and the Thames though, just a few minutes from landing…

just to add… the significance of all this can be quite apparent when you consider that the commander usually occupies the left seat (but not exclusively) and sometimes the commander can occupy the right hand seat in training situations where perhaps a pilot training on the line to become a captain occupies the left seat (their usual place is the right hand seat) and there are different visual perspectives from either side of the aircraft.
Further, specifically on the 737 for example, the ground steering mechanism is only available to the person occupying the left hand seat when that person can become the handling non-landing pilot which, on departure switches to the handling pilot but can be retained by the handling non-landing pilot in the taxi phase of the flight to the stand.
Easy, innit…
who writes this shit…

Please Graham, no more. It’s making my brain hurt!! :rofl:

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my head hurts Graham :slight_smile:

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So, from reading the articles, it would seem that the inflight fight involved both the Handling Pilot and the Non-Handling Pilot handling one another inappropriately, but happily any escalation of the inflight infighting was prevented by a Flight Attendant intervening for the remaining flight duration.
Simples ! :slight_smile:
Just like the rules of cricket really;
You have two sides, one out in the field and one in.
Each man OR woman that’s in the side that’s in goes out, and when he/she is out he/she comes in and the next man/woman goes in until he/she’s out.
When they are all out, the side that’s out comes in and the side that’s been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out.
Sometimes you get men/women still in and not out.
When a man/woman goes out to go in, the men/women who are out try to get them out, and when he/she is out he/she goes in and the next batter in goes out and goes in.
There are two men/woman called umpires who stay out all the time and they decide when the men/women who are in are out.
When both sides have been in and all the men/women have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men/women have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!

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