A good and compassionate oncologist should not mind this. Just don’t expect them to agree with very many of the “alternative” treatments, nor necessarily be an expert in all of them (there are a lot) - but they should be conversant with some and able (and willing) to explain their reservations.
Complimentary is a bit different in that it is supposed to go along with “i.e. compliment” conventional treatment. These therapies are unlikely to do any great harm and may be of enormous help for patients.
I can think of many reasons for not wanting chemo but ethical? You have piqued my interest there.
Well first you have to find a compassionate oncologist…the one my dad got was anything but…or seemed that way to us who were there with him.,I doubt I’ll ever forget him leaning back in his chair seemingly totally oblivious to the devastation he was about to deliver to our family…
My Dad was given the choice between a few days without chemo and 6 weeks with an “experimental” chemo…he had a few small investments which he was always very careful with… that he wasn’t exploiting humanity over monetary gain…he said no…he wasn’t prepared to be a guineapig for the pharmaceutical industry…from initial diagnosis he lived a month to the day…My sister flew back from Canada…we were all there in his final moments…
Would things have been different had I had the internet all those years ago…,the only thing I knew of back then was Vitamin c and I immediately went out and bought him a massive basket of fruit…
But is that not in and of itself extremely harsh…???
That if a cancer patient diagnosed with pancreatic cancer manages to survive a couple of years that the original diagnosis must then be questioned purely because the “patient” is still alive…???
It’s like saying “well because of the law I am legally compelled to give you chemo that may possibly kill you…but I am at the same time legally prevented from giving you plant medicines which are and have bèen shown to work over millennium…???”
On Balance Helen, I was at one of our finest hospitals and it was only really the Prof who didn’t like the questions. I put off starting chemo for a couple of weeks with all the doubts in my mind, I finally said to the Prof, if it was your head would you put that into yourself? Yes in the blink of an eye he replied, I have seen the results of not doing it in patients who refuse and sadly the outcome is not good.
In defence of the medical profession, they have improved so much over the last few years and the DNA research will save so many patients the discomfort of chemo and allow more targeted treatment. My OH was one of the first to have the DNA tumour analysis, they flew her tumour to silicon valley and the test results proved chemo would be worthless, saved the NHS a lot of funds for someone else to benefit from and herself a lot of pain and discomfort.
No it’s just recognition of the natural history of pancreatic cancer and the fact that diagnostic errors can be made.
We’re a lot better these days so it’s less likely to happen - it used to be (1980’s and earlier) that your diagnostic procedure was pretty much your curative procedure. Patients went under the knife not really knowing whether they had cancer, what the options were and even what type of operation the surgeon was going to do once they had been put to sleep.
These days none of that is considered acceptable.
Most oncologists (and by this I include “surgical oncologists”) would not embark upon treatment for cancer without imaging (to confirm the stage or degree of spread) and histology (tissues samples to confirm the type of cancer and increasingly specific aspects of its biology).
I should stress that “questioning the diagnosis” is not likely to be done with the patient but if faced with someone who is supposed to have had advanced pancreatic cancer (i.e. spread to other organs) more than 10 years ago “was the diagnosis right” is not an unreasonable thought.
No patient is - or at any rate should be - “compelled” to have chemo.
I think the medical profession in general is better at talking to patients - certainly oncologists are these days compared with 20 or 30 years ago but you’ll always get the occasional throwback.
My own theory is that the medical profession has a much higher incidence of mild “high functioning” autistic spectrum individuals. I mean it’s almost self selecting (requirements - a brain which has a leaning towards logical analysis and an individual who doesn’t mind years of study on a single subject having to remember zillions of loosely connected bits of information). It’s no wonder than some of them aren’t the best communicators (in the UK, by the way, most oncologists will have done at least one formal communications skills training course).
If I look at some of my old text books it was pretty brutal. If you were suspected to have a gall stone in your common bile duct it was a full on surgical procedure to diagnose this. Now a days it’s a scan. Gall bladder removal was a big op now a days usually keyhole. One of the biggest things has been in ulcer treatment. People used to eat bland boring diets to soothe things and if they had surgery it was quite radical. Now it’s a course of tablets
Just to expand on that last comment - there is no law which compels a doctor to offer chemotherapy and certainly no law which compels a patient to accept it.
Also, to be fair we haven’t been “giving you plant medicines which are and have bèen shown to work” over millennia but a good few cytotoxic chemotherapies have their origin in the natural world such as Taxanes from the bark of the pacific yew, vinca alkaloids from the periwinkle, anthracyclines from bacteria…
So the argument that conventional medicine ignores “natural” drugs does not really hold water (where those drugs have been shown to be effective, of course).
Well - just read through this thread, and of course all comments are valuable. After 15 months of accompanying my wife through pancreatic cancer, until she left us on 12th October 2018, my comments come only from my own experience. Firstly - I received about 10 different bits of advice on "miracle foods, supplements etc. Secondly the journey through diagnosis, chimo, decision not to operate due to metastases, palliative chimo, final phase to departure……. all we humble humans can do is to listen to the specialists. They have been through it 100s of times, and although we all want “something extra” for our loved ones, in reality - it ain’t going to happen. That’s the stark difficult truth. I helped my wife to relieve her pain using a professional laser (with guidance from a specialist), bought CBD oil and tablets, did countless massages and basically ran around in a state of semi-controlled panic for the 15 months. But she still had to go as pancreatic cancer is unforgiving. The medical profession can replace hearts, lungs, livers, even faces, but a 3cms tumour beats them almost every time. It sucks but that’s how it goes. I am not angry, just very very sad but I will always support the wonderful medical profession in all they do…even if the “something extra” for my dear wife was not there. My grief goes on unabated
I truly hate and detest cancer. There can’t be many other illnesses that cause such pain and suffering and misery and fear on such a wide scale. I hate that it takes babies and children and young adults and pets and people I love.
In July 2007 my friend had a fall at a work’s sporting event. He had stomach pain that wouldn’t go away. He deteriorated quickly despite medical intervention. By September he was in hospital in constant pain and the doctors were baffled. No one was looking for cancer because he was so young. By the time they found the tumour in his gall bladder it was too late and he was given 3 months to live. He died 3 weeks later, a week after his 32nd birthday.
At the same time my Dad was in remission following chemotherapy for a myeloma which was attached to his bladder. It had shrunk from football size to nothing and in August he was declared cancer free. Then it returned with a vengeance and he was admitted to hospital a week after my friend’s funeral. Just 3 weeks later we, or rather I, was told it was terminal and he had weeks to live. I had to tell my Mum and my brother. He died at home 9 days later, he was 63.
The only illness to touch me more is COPD and that is also a curse I wouldn’t wish on anyone.
I don’t understand why death is so hard.
If I was feeling stronger I would maybe start a discussion on appalling, hideous, revolting illnesses like these, and disabilities, and how there can’t possibly be a God. Probably best not to.
Count me in on sending love to all those suffering…people…animals…families…caregivers…
I’ve just heard that a friend’s dog has died of lymphoma…he was diagnosed early 2017…given chemo until January 2018…thought they had beaten it…they just had to make the decision to put him to sleep…he had just turned 8 years old…they’re devastated… x
Just noticed that this lady is retiring in January…she seems to have had a successful operation for pancreatic cancer in the past but now out of remission…
Helen… put your cursor over the start of the phrase you want to quote…click and drag the cursor over the phrase/words … they will highlight
and “quote” will appear above them …
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That is very sound advice Nellie.
I was a Reiki Master Practitioner before coming to France.
Reiki can be marvellous for helping with the stress and fear of cancer and works with treatment.
You need to be careful because it can potentiate drugs, so I would not give treatments just before and after chemo.
Treatment can be given at a distance, so it is not necessary for the client to have to leave their home or hospital.
My problems have been with diagnosis.
I went to the GP 's twice in UK when I noticed symptoms and was told that I had an abscess. Well, I did, but it was in the breast duct and caused by the tumour.
Of course, antibiotics did not work and only made me felel ill.
By the time I was diagnosed nine months later, after seeing another doctor when I was in hospital with facial cellulitis, it had only got to Stage 1.
My cancer was only diagnosed by biopsy, which I had initially asked for at my GP’s and was refused.
Fortunately we had private medicine and my surgeon was marvellous.
I was told that I had the cancer and that because of its site I needed a mastectomy. That was on the Wednesday evening and I was operated on on Friday.
I was lucky because of my age the the type of cancer was not aggressive, but that did not help with the anger at the way I was treated by my GP’s.
I understand that it is still not possible to insist that your comments are put into your notes, as both doctors said that they could not remember me asking for surgical intervention.
I had Reiki at my local hospice after my operation, which was really helpful with the emotions I had at my very poor treatment and misdiagnosis.
My sympathies to eveyone who has suffered from cancer(either themselves or close relations)especially after a late a late or a misdiagnosis which worsened the prognosis
I have heard of quite a few cases of breast cancer not being detected on a mammogram but by biopsy(in the case of an aunt of my ex only because she insisted,but this was in France 40 years ago)
Also , the actress Linda Bell ingham who died a couple of years from bowel cancer said that colonoscopys should be offered to everyone over 60 as her cancer had not been detected by the regular faecal occult blood tests that she had undergone since her 50s.
To return to alternative treatments, I can always remember reading an article about Dr Jane Plant(chief biochemist for the UK Geological Society)who managed to halt an advanced breast cancer( with metastases in her neck and I think lungs)by cutting out all milk products which radically shrunk her tumours.I think she had no more problems for 18 years by mainly eating a vegan diet.Her cancer then returned (she admitted she had been more lax with her diet)but again managed to put it into remission by the same methods.She died 2 years ago at 71 ( I think due to a blood clot during chemotherapy treatment;)She had always received normal clinical treatment in parallel with the dietry regime
I saw a documentary a couple of years ago about the benefits of fasting a week before chemotherapy treatments.
I have reki, reflexology ,ear candling and various massages. I see them as essential maintenance for an aging body being forced to do a very physical job
