The comment was really directed in the fashion of my handwriting would have a negative influence on that of my daughter. Lines, yes, they are used in the canteen fairly generously for behaviour issues. That should be stopped because they have no pedagogic value whatsoever. However, when schools are giving homework that my daughter who is always in the top three of her class takes over an hour to do, how long are the least able taking and what is the effect on them? Given that all guidelines say it is for revision and such things as memorising poetry, the amount of actual written work is quite stunning. As for the amount of training teachers have, to repeat myself, in my other daughter's CLIS (special needs) class they have a 'teacher' who had one year training after having previously been a photographer. She is now in her fourth school year and has had no training during that time... Training in illegible handwriting seems unlikely because it appears that it is not permitted, at least (true to worldwide tradition) until somebody goes to medical school!
Interesting your comments David and Brian but don't French doctors have special training in illegible 'prescription' writing like their English counterparts or are there just a few rebels out there?? Yes, the 'lines' haven't changed since pre-war days and they are even dished out at Lycee level (for quite ridiculous reasons) - just to make it all the more difficult for the student to finish their 'real' work which will run the risk that they will be given more lines to write!!!!
Triumphales O Sodales! Cantilenus Fundite is about the best I can muster these days but we used to do a rough translation and you can guess how it went. Frequently when I write I use only capitals as when we used to do copious notes on architectural drawings we did them by hand after having lessons on Roman scripts, which were always in caps anyway. I think if I get a note back about my writing I'll probably explode!
Funny you should say that. When I hand wrote a note to a class teacher, we received back a comment about my handwriting! It is not 'properly' joined up, I use an 'a' as per this typeface instead of the 'o' with a bit adjoined and things like that. I am 64 years old, I have made up my own 'rules' since beginning to write in a German pre-school class over 60 years ago and the 30 something year old teacher found it necessary to comment! She claimed it is difficult to read. In fact, when I do not scrawl it is very legible, which was the case then! One day I shall write a letter in Latin just out of spite and then ask 'Well aren't you supposed to be educated?'. Call me a b i t c h, and you'll be right!
That was tried, teachers (and indeed the director) have just about no influence or authority in the canteen. A canteen is run directly by a mairie. The mother in this case was told to go to the mairie to talk to 'somebody' there by the class teacher.
I am very much a starter in all this being the 67 year old father of a Franglais 3.5 YO. I have already perceived a slight officiousness in some aspects of our village school. In fact I was told off myself by the head for crossing one part of the cour with my daughter (in order to avoid hill climbing as I have a duff knee,) Luckily though I wasn't given any lines. What are French lines like? I can still remember my first one as I wrote it so many times: "Alaric the bold invaded Rome in the year 401". There were others in Latin, Greek, French etc. I very much fear that my English, spidery and spiky handwriting would not be approved of either. Would not giving chocolates to staff at Christmas be seen as currying favour, and might embarrass less well off parents? Is this woman a good cook either? I clearly remember a food strike at my senior school when one boy threw a plate of food over the Matron in charge of food on the grounds of inedibility. Often the best way is a counter attack!
I think the first port of call would be to have a word with your son's form teacher. Perhaps the dinner lady meant well, but was rather bossy. Good luck.
Actually, Steve and Mary having come in at about the same time, adding to the negative stories, it appears to me as though enough of us have seen and know that it is a very mixed bag. The better ones may be excellent, at the other end of the line quite appalling. The problem though, is that the schools where punishment is dished out by canteen staff, sometimes quite arbitrarily, need to be reigned in. Therefore, the entire regime of school management needs to come under scrutiny and probably the starting point would be to pass immediately line management, thus supervision, of canteens over to directors and their teaching staff. It works in most other countries, why not in France?
Ah, quelle dommage. Very sorry for your son. The cantine environment in France is supposed to be ‘designed’ as a environment where children eat slowly, learn ‘education au gout’, have a three to four course nutritious and tasty meal and learn about eating together with a social aspect. Unfortunately it is not always like that. Have also heard horror stories about the cantine ‘ladies’ around various school systems. The cantine lady at my kid’s primary school used to hit the kids if they were bad (smack them on the hands with a wooden spoon). We talked to the directrice and voila-it stopped. Trust your intuition and speak your mind. If she is doing this to your son, she does it to other kids too.
I think this is another example of French awkwardness as the teachers are not responsible for the kids in the lunch period , i have had something similair where my 9 year old Daughter came home upset due another kid ( known troublecauser & general bully) doing something messy then quickly blaming my daughter /attracting the dinner staff who give a severe rerimand without justification. The issue around lunchtime supervision (or lack of ) was raised rather heatedly in the parents welcome evening and the schools position was "take it up with the marie " ,it was evident the french parents are unhappy too.
Steve
My wife, being Swiss Italian, has lots of the latter bit about her and is direct, loud and unflattering. She has lived in the Francophone world more than half of her life and taught me the ropes here. If a teacher, for instance, is talking and talking and will not let you get a word in, then tell him or her to 'shut up and listen'. After I recovered from the initial nerves I did it. One of the teachers is now my boys night out chum!
I would love to read the book when it comes out. On the other hand your daughters might well make you eat the book at some point though lol
You are probably right Sharon, my husband, who's French, also keeps saying to me I'm too polite when I talk to people like that, maybe I'll calm down a bit a go and talk to her. I have lived here 18 yrs now and I do feel the lifestyle is better on the whole and I've never regretted living here, but like in any country there will always be a few differences and that's why I posted to see if I was getting worked up over nothing and being too much the " Mother hen". xx
No you are not taking things the wrong way Beckie! You sound as though you are giving your children the best possible experience with the 'privileged' lifestyle here - but it does sometimes come with a few problems! It sounds like this lady needs to be put in her place and this is something I had to do myself fairly recently. One of my children once told me that I have to stop being too polite as people here do not seem to respect us for it - and I found that his advice worked when I rather uncharacteristically told a woman (who often talks down to me) that I was 'fed up' with her talking to me as if I were a five year old child - she has been all sweetness and polite since! I'm not advocating that you 'have a go' at her - but I bet if you just broach the subject, she will stop this interfering!! !Good luck, xx
I am a Scot, the messiest lot in the world, my OH is Swiss who are spotless, neat and tidy. We both have genetic faults because in our case it is the other way round.
Beckie we are also stuck in it up to our necks. We both work in the children's rights sector and at one stage I was one of the big shots on child participation internationally, with the publications to show it. Then I met my present lady through related work and once we reproduced we had no choice but to treat our children as equals. Next year a book will appear on children's citizenship, rather academic, fat and expensive - I do not fancy my daughters throwing copies of it at me if I don't treat 'em right... ;-)
they pretend to beckie and then we have to do it over again- bien sur!
I do think that although sometimes it's good for a child to hear you do that and that's just the way it is, most of the time if people talk about things it's a really good idea. I often have talks with my children and ask them what things they like or don't like as there is 6 of us living together I think we need to do that and the youngest voice is just as important as the oldest.
Funnily enough when I worked at McDonald's, I was a trainer there and team leader, I set up a "post box" too and I think it can be a really good idea.
I hate the thought of children being punished because they are not eating, when one of mine doesn't like something they get a teaspoon full - which they have to eat - but I still have memories of being forced to eat when I was a kid and it was horrible. Training would be a good idea, but sometimes you just can't teach people tact (says the person who seems to have a life long habit of putting her foot in her mouth)!
Heather - do men clean then I didn't think it was in their make up lol
I load the dishwasher! I also do over half of the cooking and then there is the washing machine, the vacuum cleaner... My OH cuts the wood, mows the grass and stuff like that - but then I can't since breaking my shoulder.
ok daddies get a look in as well- only when they do the washing up and cleaning and come to think of it cooking as well lol
Heather - what pedagogy? Otherwise I agree wholeheartedly. Well, except not just mother knows best some of us fathers do too and actually I do believe children sometimes know far better, but that is another story for elsewhere.