Another fine mess the Chinese have gotten us into?

It would seem the jury is still very much out on how the “Wuhan” virus developed. Wet market or lab, accident or experiment?

And some good news from a Lab…

Must say, all the stops are being pulled out. The trick is to stay well until they come to fruition.


your heading seems a little alarmist, especially with the noises coming from the USA, so maybe, as we cannot access the first link, without making an unwanted subscription, you could give us your take on the article


There’s no evidence it was developed in a lab - except for the inevitable conspiracy theorists.


You can access the article Martin. You may have to register first but it’s free.

As a layman I found it very interesting, a couple of points in particular. It appears that a lab splicing in a bit of DNA or RNA would leave traces that could be spotted in the virus’ DNA. Also the method of “breeding” the virus using multiple species. So refuting one method but leaving the door open regarding another.

I’m sorry if you found the heading alarmist, I tried to make it amusing by quoting Oliver Hardy.

The reason I posted it all is that I had personally discounted the Lab story as Trump bluster (which he ramped up a bit more yesterday) and US military sources had discounted it. However I respect the Economist and if they were examining the possibility I thought it was worth a read.

Based on this article and the Chinese regime’s secrecy and duplicity, I’ve upgraded my scepticism level from “total” to “neutral” :slightly_smiling_face:


Did you read the article Paul. I think it’s alwasy wise to keep an open mind… and so does then Economist obviously :thinking:

I don’t think it worked John - don’t give up the day job yet lol

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I thought I read it the other day, maybe not - I can’t check at the moment because it seems broken in Firefox.

thanks for the detailed reply John. Nice of you to make such an effort as many people these days are either posting links or quoting chunks of text without any commentary themselves, which in my case, means they lose the intended audience.

as previously stated, and which initiated my own reply, I had suspicions the Asians were being lined up as the fall guys but the article you quote from a journal you can respect seems to a be serious text

it’s clear many people are being taken advantage of during this crisis by wild claims from those wanting to stir it up for there own ends. On the other hand some fine journalism producing some great articles is also emerging to counter this threat


Evidence or not, Trump doesn’t care about the truth (apart from his version of it) which is quite worrying. Any takers for him thinking it’s not a biological weapon ?

Where Donald Trump is concerned I think that he has a single cognitive position that yields to no modifying agency: “What do I do to survive?”.

It involves no more thought than does your lower limb to jerk when the doctor taps your knee with a little rubber hammer.

He blames someone, and that impulse attracts a name, or an image, scarcely meriting the title “thought”; and summons up a schema of characteristic automatic movements: jaw-jutting, arm-raising like a battery-operated Chinese toy, torso-swivelling from the hips, and perseverative coat plucking, as a dying man sometimes ‘plucks’ constantly at his sheets.

He generates no thoughts, but echoes fragments fed him by ‘voices off’ . It is pathetic, and so are we to do nothing to silence him, or conceive of anything else that will remove him.


I sometimes wonder if disliking Trump and all he blurts out might not distract from the one or two things he might get right. As in… just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they are all out to get you.


I thought it was “Just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you”.


True, bit tired now :roll_eyes:

I got the Laurel & Hardy allusion - but still not sure the thread title would appeal to the millions of Chinese who have no connection with any laboratory, pandemic, etc…

I didn’t post it for an audience in China Geof. I doubt they’ll ever see it :mask: In fact, they wouldn’t be allowed see it :zipper_mouth_face:

I’m not sure if the pandemic is the only mess China may or may not have caused so far, but their regime has the potential to cause a lot of trouble. For example, forcing the WHO (and and as many others as they can intimidate) not to recognise Taiwan is pretty bad. Now they’re building up their military and buying increased influence in the M/E and Africa.

Their monitoring and suppression of their own people, Their “re-education” camps, their suspected stealthy genocide of the Uighurs. All not good.

I don’t think China is a benign force Geof and I don’t think it’s values are compatible with our Western values. Nevertheless, our appetite for cheap iPhones etc. has caused us to nurture a potential Frankenstein. (I’m not sure the US or UK are compatible with our Western values either, but that a whole different story).

I need a nap after that rant :sleeping:


Very well put John


Totally agree, the west is getting relient on China for goods just to get things cheaper, but in reality we get badly made goods, plastic pollution, banned chemicals still been used and going into the ozone ,
We have to get a manufacturing industry back at home, produce better quality, it may cost more but you have to ask the question why do TVs, fridges, washing machines in many instances last just a few years , when some people have white goods from the 1970’s still working.
You mentioned Taiwan but remember Tibet also, the taking over of the south China seas , an area that is not even near China.
Regardless of the virus the word has to take note and do something not just talk which usually happens before they get too dominant and too big a Army and navy.


I think it quite likely that China knew about this virus and was working on it in its laboratories and, unfortunately, it escaped.
The rest of the world has become far too dependent upon China and its belt and road policy to make emerging nations into indebtedness is appalling.
I have just heard that a critic of their commmunist policies has been sentenced to fifteen years in jail.
I think that any right thinking person will be avoiding Chinese products as much as possible.


and no evidence it came from a wet market.

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Exactly what I was saying this morning… and rather than an Industrial Revolution, Britain could again lead with an ‘Industrial Renovation’. And, indeed, somehow all this mess we are now in could perhaps be engineered to turn in the Wests’ (I really mean EU) opportunity to stop being reliant on the Chinese.