I think your appreciation of @Shiba comment is somewhat misplaced. Putting aside the roar of a V8 the cost to the majority to purchase a battery car is prohibited or simply an undesirable cost.
My current diesel runabout is 8 years old and should be good for a while longer. When I come to replace it, if the price difference between battery and ICE remains the same then another diesel it will be.
2 Likes
It sounded like an old-fashioned electric milk float to me
There is the tell tale electrons and motor whine but the rest seems road noise transmitted through the body work. When you take out the combustion part of a car, other noise becomes more prevalent as many EV drivers note. The wong mirrors at speed was never a consideration, it is now.
Probably not in a CitroĂ«n ami thoughđ
1 Like
That was Mrs. Ethel Golightly of 25 Arbuthnot Terrace. 
4 Likes
It depends how you count your pennies JohnBoy. As I quoted in my post, âThe effects of air pollution on childrenâs physical development continue throughout their life, with a cost to the NHS estimated at ÂŁ20 billion.â (and diesel vehicles are the worst polluters)
There is also the cost of clearing up after the mess of oil extraction, transporting and refining not to mention the cost of sound proofing against traffic noise to make life bearable in urban areas. The cost of damage to the climate caused by emitted greenhouse gases resulting in floods, hurricanes, droughts etc is probably off the scale (not to mention the human misery caused)
I respectfully suggest you are simply passing on the cost of driving your diesel runabout to someone else.
No one is suggesting that anyone rushes out to switch to electric vehicles. That is not practical but when it comes to changing your current vehicle, then is the time to give it some serious consideration.
There, I fixed that for you.
Free carte grise, much lower maintenance & lower running costs mean that the currently higher purchase price of EVs is an investment in to spending less in the long run.
1 Like
So where do you consider the break even piont to be,
2, 4, 6, 8 years or more?
If I continue to live in rural France then some form of transport will be needed. Forget pedal power and I will need something large enough for my needs, currently drive a Kangoo.
Depending on the kilometre break even piont I suspect my current/future diesel will win on cost and less damage to the environment, all things considered.
2 Likes
Thatâs before you even consider that most people couldnât afford anything that currently carries a V8.
My view on all tech is, can we do the same thing with less. From running a swimming pool on 1/10th of the electricity of a std setup. To LED lamps doing the same. Electric vehicles are way more efficient and then how much power do you need to go shopping, certainly not a V8.
In an attempt to be helpful I have done the sums comparing similar electric and diesel Kangoo vehicles of similar specs. Based on charging the vehicle at home the break even point is around 100,000 Km. This is without all the benefits of current government subsidies etc.
1 Like
Interesting. So given that the unit âunder the bonnetâ is the basic difference how about an analysis of cost and damage to the environment of manufacturing between an ICE engine and a battery.
Yes, lithium mining is not exactly the most environmentally friendly activity.
While I am all for saving the planet, I donât think electric vehicles are quite there yet, especially for those whose budget dictates buying a used car for under âŹ15000 and running it for 5 years or more.
Electric cars that have decent range and performance are still out of most peopleâs budgets if buying new - and if you buy a used electric you are getting old technology with an expensive battery replacement somewhere in its future, which isnât the case with petrol or diesel.
And arguably itâs better for the environment to run a fairly recent petrol or diesel (that passes emission regs) than to scrap a perfectly usable vehicle and incur another set of initial environmental costs with an electric.
Also with electric cars there is the vast financial and environmental costs of providing thousands of charging stations, and generating the electricity for them, which canât all be done with solar or wind, there isnât the capacity. I concede that making and transporting petrol and diesel fuel is a dirty business too of course.
Hydrogen power seems to be a possible better option, though I donât know much about it. Otherwise I think it means waiting for cleaner battery technology and more solar and wind capacity before electric cars become viable for everybody.
1 Like
Depends how its done and compared to oil extraction its better as oil, used once must mine more.
Just for the record your rate of 0,20âŹ/kWh is slightly low if you are looking at EDFâs Option Base or HC/HP.
However, 5 of the 6 Tempo rates are lower, with HC bleu being only 12,96âŹ/kWh.
Clearly if one has some contribution from solar PV then things get even cheaper.
Which would heavily throw your calculation in the favour of EVs; at the time of writing the French government will give you up to 7000⏠Bonus Ăcologique for buying a new EV &/or up to 5000⏠Prime Ă la conversion for scrapping a qualifying older vehicle. Some regions also give further subsidies.
Too much energy required to produce it, 5 electric cars charged for the power used to fuel 1 hydrogen vehicle.
1 Like
I think you now have to be working in order to get this, which excludes those who have retired.
Edit: Actually, you can get it if your not working, but your reference tax income has to be less than âŹ7100 per part⊠i think. Itâs quite complicated 
Neither is the prospecting, extraction, transporting & refining of crude oil,. Then add the transporting of the refined products to service station forecourts where is then then put into vehicles & burnt once at, maybe, 25% efficiency.
Charging stations donât require large underground storage tanks. There are many examples of charging stations being supplied with renewable energy which is then stored in local batteries in order to service the demand when required.
Quite.
Itâs a blind alley.
Even if hydrogen for road transport was produced in an entirely green way the energy losses involved make it a mockery compared to storing that same energy in batteries.
Hydrogen is also difficult & dangerous to store & transport - far more so than other gases.
A recent motor show in Beijing had a vast array of EVs on offer, with just one hydrogen model on showâŠ
We have solar PV and will look to buy in a few years. If we have a car that can do V2H and V2G then it becomes even more interesting with bigger savings. If I can get my car to supply the few kWh of electricity we use overnight and replace it (and hopefully more) from solar during the day then the savings will increase. I could also make sure the car is fully charged up before red tempo days and use it to power the house. Iâve seen conflicting info about the new Renault 5 electric as to whether is supports V2G and V2H but if it does, that would be attractive as we donât need a big car.
2 Likes
I got a straight âŹ5000 off from gov.fr being retired and supplying no evidence of income. I also got another ÂŁ1,500 off from Hyundai just for buying an electric car.
The investment in a new car was a huge commitment for me and even though the sums seemed to work and the environmental rationale compelling I was very nervous about making the decision. Now I find it difficult to understand the hesitation. No one seems to mention the pleasure in driving one.
1 Like