Are Property Finders For Free?

Property & Home
1

Hi everyone,

I’d like to shake some assumptions. Notably, I think estate agents operating in France (French and non French) should adjust to the XXIst century . That’s why I wrote this somehow provocative post on our Oldstonesblog.
Copy-Paste on SurviveFrance as food for thought and because I do appreciate its members’ comments and witty reactions.

A property finder for free ?

When hiring a property finder, or a bird dog as they are called in the US, one expects him or her to find your dream house and support you all the way till the key transfer. This is a kind of tailor made service often associated with hefty commissions. In fact, compared to a XXxth Century estate agent, a bird dog costs almost nothing. Explanation.

During the search operations a property finder cannot charge the buyer anything. That’s legal. And if his client find a property by himself and choose not to hire him/her further for support in the purchase process, a warm handshake will suffice.
Sub Total : 0 €

For negotiating on your behalf, a bird dog will share the buyer’s interests in getting the lowest price, unlike regular estate agents whose fees are based on the selling price. The more the buyer pays, the happier they are.
Sub Total : 0 €

A property finder will not charge anything for the viewings he does in vain but this will spare his client time and money. He will visit only selected properties fitting his requirements. It’s a less than 0 commission.
Sub Total : less than 0 €

If the property is sold by the vendor directly in parallel to estate agents, the bird dog will find out and contact the owner. No undue commission to be paid for some pictures and an address. Big savings for the buyer and much less than 0 € commission.
Sub Total : less than 0 €

There is no charge for preparing the provisional sale agreement a property finder is legally permitted to receive. No need for the buyer in seeking (and paying) further advice on the contract stipulations. The property finder is acting on his behalf. Less than 0 € again.
Sub Total : less than 0 €

If the bird dog knows his job, the buyer won’t pay for the bottle of champagne on final contract signature.
Sub Total : 0 €

At the end of the day, the property finder deserves a fair retribution. But he/she will not charge a commission of 6, 5 or 4 % of the selling price. He will be under 3 % and if his client has selected the option, his/her commission will be calculated as a percentage of the price reduction he has obtained. Provided this professional knows how to best haggle over prices, the extra price reduction he will obtains will roughly equal the amount of his commission. Sub total 0 €

**Total cost of hiring a Bird Dog : 0 € **
Good Lad !

1 Like
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Please allow me to respond as an Estate agent in France :slight_smile:

A property finder for free ? Interesting concept?

When hiring a property finder, or a bird dog as they are called in the US, one expects him or her to find your dream house and support you all the way till the key transfer. This is a kind of tailor made service often associated with hefty commissions. In fact, compared to a XXxth Century estate agent, a bird dog costs almost nothing. Explanation.
A good estate agent will act as a property finder for you too. If a client has given us a brief we actively go and find something, as we do of course know our areas well and can dig out some gems.

During the search operations a property finder cannot charge the buyer anything. That’s legal. And if his client find a property by himself and choose not to hire him/her further for support in the purchase process, a warm handshake will suffice.
Sub Total : 0 € Neither can an estate agent. Totally free to both vendor and buyer unless they actually find a property you like and you decide to buy via them.

For negotiating on your behalf, a bird dog will share the buyer’s interests in getting the lowest price, unlike regular estate agents whose fees are based on the selling price. The more the buyer pays, the happier they are.
Sub Total : 0 € A good estate agent will negotiate with buyer and vendor to reach a happy medium price. As for the suggestion that an estate agent will drive a price up to get more commission, that is simply ridiculous. A deal ends up at the point a vendor accepts and a buyer is prepared to pay and is NEVER driven by an estate agent. Don’t forget we have had 6 years of a buyers market in France. I would love to have the power you seem to think I have!!!

A property finder will not charge anything for the viewings he does in vain but this will spare his client time and money. He will visit only selected properties fitting his requirements. It’s a less than 0 commission.
Sub Total : less than 0 € An estate agent NEVER charges to arrange viewings. He too will work to find you a suitable home, and do all of this at his own charge , so I see no difference.

If the property is sold by the vendor directly in parallel to estate agents, the bird dog will find out and contact the owner. No undue commission to be paid for some pictures and an address. Big savings for the buyer and much less than 0 € commission.
Sub Total : less than 0 € Agreed, but in reality a private buyer can go and do this himself anyway, saving himself even more money. Oh by the way have you tried to negotiate in French with an old and wise French farmer???

There is no charge for preparing the provisional sale agreement a property finder is legally permitted to receive. No need for the buyer in seeking (and paying) further advice on the contract stipulations. The property finder is acting on his behalf. Less than 0 € again.
Sub Total : less than 0 € That’s because a notaire does this. And guess what they dont charge for drawing up the provisional sales agreement. Are you suggesting estate agents charge for this service?? Guess what the notaire is there to act on your behalf as a buyer, all included within their set fees. So surely speaking with a legal representative is a more sound prospect than dealing with your property finder for legal advice? (P.S a good estate agent will help with the translation between each party free of charge).

If the bird dog knows his job, the buyer won’t pay for the bottle of champagne on final contract signature.
Sub Total : 0 € ???

At the end of the day, the property finder deserves a fair retribution. But he/she will not charge a commission of 6, 5 or 4 % of the selling price. He will be under 3 % and if his client has selected the option, his/her commission will be calculated as a percentage of the price reduction he has obtained. Provided this professional knows how to best haggle over prices, the extra price reduction he will obtains will roughly equal the amount of his commission. Sub total 0 € Oh wait a minute, your now saying this Free service costs money??? Even 3% seems to be on the high side to me, considering all he did was make a few calls, maybe drive around the countryside and then present his bill for this oh so easy work?? Agency fees are also charged as a percentage of the eventual price, it even states this in their sales mandate that if a price is reduced by negotiation then the agency fee reduces in line. As for agents charging too much, of course it can be argued both ways, however I am not trying to get a sympathy vote as I know it won’t work, but lets just take a look at what a good estate agent does.
He will take professional pictures of your home. (1-2 hours)
Write a professional description (1 hour)
Market your property through their website, but more importantly with numerous web portals, magazines, newspapers etc (Rightmove incidentally take between 15 and 25% of the agency commission for any sale where they have introduced the buyer, some portals take more). Magazine and press advertising costs a small fortune for property listings and is paid up front. Agents even pay to list houses on Le Bon Coin.
Drive any number of buying prospects around the French countryside at the agents own expense, many of whom aren’t even in a position to buy yet, as they ‘need to sell’ before buying in France, but hey ho we still go the extra mile to help out as of course they may buy one day!! Many experiences over the last ten years of clients who took 3 years and 5-10 visits viewing property before buying.
Oh don’t forget when we get this famed high commission that the individual agent takes a percentage of the agency fee and then pays 42% of the net figure to the wonderful RSi.
This is the best bit though folks!!! If you have a property finder searching for a house for you, he is most likely to have a network of agencies he works with to find houses. His 3% as suggested above comes out of the agencies 4,5,6,7%, You do realise that dont you?? So the agent does all of the aforementioned stuff and because the property finder has come in with a buyer, we give 50% of our commission away for the privilege.
Oh and we do all of this on Non exclusive sales mandates, whereby after all of the marketing, driving clients around etc etc we can receive a call from a vendor telling us, thanks but we found a buyer ourselves. I wish them well and move on. Of course we do all of that for free until we actually get to the final acte of a sale and then we get paid.

Don’t forget either that most agency mandates are for charges to be levied onto the buyer, so as a seller you dont pay anything. Believe me when I say you will be a seller one day. Seems like a reasonable deal to me.

**Total cost of hiring a Bird Dog : 0 € ** I think you are misleading people. Of course hiring him is free, but so is hiring an estate agent to search for you too, but if he is successful you pay a fee as you suggested of 3%??
I realise I am never going to convince anyone of the worth of a good estate agent, however I do love the culture we live in today, where no one is seemingly allowed to make a living and everyone over simplifies everyone else’s contribution to this world. I genuinely would love to bring you along to the average day in the life of an estate agent in France to show you that despite comments to the contrary we do earn pretty much every penny we take.

Good Lad !
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1 Like
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Hi Tim,

Thanks for your answer which was absolutely legitimate. I’ll keep my answer short and start with you’re conclusion. I fully agree with you on the fact that XXth century estate agents should be allowed to make an honest living. After all, water carriers and candle makers have this right too. And victimisation will certainly not help a profession that is seriously challenged by technology and the customers new expectations.

For your other remarks:

  • I agree that GOOD estate agents act as a property finder. What about the others (and how to identify them) ? They search for what they found. Is that what the buyer is expecting ?

  • I agree estate agents and property finders (PF) cannot charge anything until the final sale contract is signed. There is no difference and I did not mean the opposite.

  • I agree that an estate agent will not drive the price up… because he can’t. A buyer’s offer can be equal or below the advertised selling price, never above. A PF, especially when his fees are based on the price reduction, will make all endeavours to get the lowest price. An estate agent will look for the “happy medium price” you mentioned. That is the price that is high enough to make him happy while being acceptable for both parties. Where is the buyer’s interest ?

  • I agree an estate agent NEVER charges to arrange viewings and will work to find a suitable home. But, at the end of the day he can solely arrange viewings of houses he is mandated to sell. That very often leads to useless viewings. For a PF finding a “suitable” home is not enough and his search is not restricted to an agent’s portfolio. As you rightly said, he can work with estate agents but, with the end of the exclusive mandate, he will make them compete again each other and, whenever possible circumvent them. Some call us pirates but our clients thank us.

  • I agree private buyers can try to find out the owner and contact him directly but I am not sure they will succeed, considering estate agents are withholding critical information.PF have methods and tools to raise these obstacles.
    I finally agree a notaire does the legal advice and is usually neutral but would any estate agent acting on behalf of the seller raise up a case if some stipulations, although legal, were not in the buyer’s interests? If I were a buyer I would like to be sure.

And your final call to the sellers makes sense. PF are not on the seller’s side, that’s true. But think, they usually work with their clients for months. They know their expectations and capabilities. They were with them during all the viewings and talked with them constantly. They usually got acquainted with the sellers too as it is part of their job to negotiate with them. Thus they are in a far better position to reach a deal. Isn’t that in the sellers’ interests too, to speak with someone who can deliver ?

Thanks,

Christian

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From a customers point of view, I would use an Estate Agent but never a Property Finder. That’s my take on the situation.

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Hi Christian, Many thanks for your reasoned and polite response. I appreciate it.

I think we are agreed that a good service from estate agent or Property finder is second to none and of course trying to find a good one can be like finding a needle in a haystack.

I would like to clarify a couple of points though starting with the common misconception that an estate agent will compromise one party over the other to ‘get a deal’. I cant agree with this as in reality a buyer will pay what a buyer wants to pay and a vendor will sell for what they want to sell at. In today’s market the buyer will have the strongest position and in the future it may swing back to the vendor having more power, but it certainly hasn’t been that way for at least 5 years now. So in conclusion to suggest an estate agent can drive the price is a little unfair as we rarely have any say. About the only thing we can do is if the buyer has made a sensible offer reflecting property, market and their buying position is to point out to a vendor why they should perhaps consider the offer and give them genuine reasons to consider it and of course in this situation an agent is fighting the corner of the buyer in order to illustrate to a vendor they need to consider the long term consequences (I have lost count of how many vendors turn down a sensible early offer, only to be trying to find a buyer at a much lower price two years later??) And also if a buying client believes what they read in the Daily Mail and think they can steal every property in an agents portfolio, it is common for an agent to fight the vendors corner and give concrete reasons to a buyer why their crazy 40% under asking price offer isn’t going to work and the vendor isn’t standing with opens arms waiting to be had over??? So once again I propose that a good agent will do a good job for all parties and of course we get rewarded well for our work, but you wouldn’t believe me if I tried to explain the day I have had today alone trying to sort our notaires, septic tanks, diagnostics and irrational buyers and vendors for two sales we have going through at the moment. I used to have hair!!! :slight_smile:

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Hi Tim,

We are certainly agreed that good and commited estate agents and property finders will adjust and survive.The others will not. And I do agree with your description of these professionals as honest brokers. That’s important.
You’re probably made of this stuff and I would like to keep in touch. I am sure you are already a very good property finder, aren’t you ? :slight_smile:
Regards,
Christian