Thanks for taking the time to respond, and yes it is very helpful.
It certainly sounds a lot less difficult than the consul here made it sound, but you have given us some food for thought in terms of timing. I will be eligible for the Australian pension in just under 3 years, so it would definitely be an advantage to hang in for that time. My wife is a further 8 years after that, so I think it would be a case of taking the plunge - ten years is probably a bridge too far.
If I could pick your brains furtherā¦
I work from home in IT. If I was based in France but all my clientele and work was in Australia, would I run foul of the French taxation system? The work would be performed in Australia, invoiced in Australia and paid into our Australian bank account.
If we were to get a 12 month visa, are we allowed to come and go during this period or would we have to reside in France the entire time? It might be that one or other of us would need to return to Australia during that time for family or work reasons.
It would be great to catch up with you when we come over later in the year. We are spending a couple of weeks in Antibes then driving across, arriving on 21st August. So weāll probably miss you at that end of the trip, but hopefully can catch up in late September / early October. It would be good to talk to some Aussies who have actually experienced living there - we have only done holidays and I know that is very different to taking the plunge.
Again, thanks for your feedback, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Trevor as Veronique has explained if you are physically sitting in France doing the work then you will need to declare for French taxes (Be aware however, that many people will tell you that if you spend 183 days in France then you are regarded as a French Tax resident. This is not necessarily true. Under the Bi-Lateral Tax Agreement if your economic centre continued to be in Australia (Your business structure, your principle residence and other dependent members of your family) together with the fact that you are only going to be in France for 12 months and not renewā¦then there could be a case for you to remain as an Australian Tax resident. I cannot stress enough that you need to get good professional advice from someone who knows both the French and Australian system and the Bi-lateral agreement. Incidentally under a 12 month Visitor Visa, you are not entitled to work in France.
While you hold a 12 month visa, you can leave France and return as you wish. In fact it is not often checked at many EU borders.
Finally with regards to the Australian Pension, France is one of the very few Euro countries that does not have a reciprocal agreement with Australia. If you were a resident of Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece etc, you CAN apply for the Aussie Pension in those countries and it then becomes portable (So I have been told by the International Section of Centrelink in OZ) Once you have the pension, you could then move to France and retain the pension.
Hope this helps, but please rememberā¦seek good professional advice from a qualified accountant.
I have been following the Aussies in France thread for some time and you and others have provided much practical help for those of us in Australia looking to relocate to France.
Everyones situation is unique - my wife and I moved from Uk to Australia in 2012 and have been working in the health Service here - me as a GP (starting up a General Practice in Tassie for 2 years, then becoming a locumming grey nomad in the Outback). my wife as a nurse working with me when she could. We did what just about everyone advised against - taking out a QROPS from my UK medical pension but we have since contributed into an Aussie superannuation.
Now my question is this.
Are there Aussies out there who have , as is their right, cashed in their superannuation on retirement and brought the cash over to a French bank account and registered as a French resident. If so have they had any issues or problems doing this with French tax authorities?. Obviously they would be assessed within the Wealth Tax Guidelines , but possibly not as having a taxable lump sum. Advice we have had from " Olaf" (thank you for the reference) was that it is possible, but he now seems to have left the Dordogne and I have to say we were not too impressed by his professionalism .
So in essence are there Aussies out there in France who have trailblazed a French retirement by cashing in their pension prior to moving to France?
Iām certainly no expertā¦ butā¦ if you have gained a cash sum (by whatever means) before you come to Franceā¦ I cannot see why that should involve French Tax folk unless (as you suggest) it takes you into the high level of Wealth Tax ( Impots sur la fortune I think they call itā¦) when you make your Declaration on a year by year basisā¦ once you are Resident hereā¦
Many folk sell all their property in UK or wherever (presumably for good sum)ā¦ to finance their life in Franceā¦ and I donāt think it gives them any problems.
This is an interesting thread even for us non-Aussiesā¦
For cash that you had in your bank or invested prior to moving to France, normally you would pay tax on the interest earned but not on the cash itself.
Whether this would have any implications for your visa application, I donāt know. Wouldnāt think so, but itās something to check.
As far as I am aware, Olaf is still at his practice in the Dordogneā¦I am still using his company for my tax returns, although I also have had some reasons to question his services.
The important thing about your superannuation funds in OZ. As I understand it, if you were to ācash them outā in Australia (presumably Tax free) and perhaps around 6 months before coming to France, the funds would be regarded as a ācapital lump sumā and not taxable in France. The earning (interest or dividends) on these funds in France would be taxable naturally. There may also be a need to be able to satisfy any French bank of the origins of these funds as the bank needs to satisfy āMoney Launderingā requirements. Please also take into account that the investment opportunities and interest rates in France are quite different to Australia. In addition, if you were subsequently seeking a āCarte de Sejourā (Residency Card), the french will look at your āincomeā that you use to support yourself so that you are not going to be a burden on the State. In this regard they will often not take ācapitalā alone into account, as this can be used up very quicklyā¦they prefer solid incomeā¦wages, salary or pensionā¦it is not always the case, but in some departments it is.
If you came to France and then cashed you super in after becoming a resident here, there is a ālump sum taxā made on such withdrawals and from recollection, this is a straight 7.5% tax on the total withdrawal. It would seem much better to cash it in within Australia first in my opinion, subject of course to Australian Preservation rules on super. Also it could be hit with wealth tax in France, but the threshhold for wealth tax is quite high.
In fairness, I must also give a disclaimer that I am not an expert and that I am purely relying on my experience here and my knowledge of tax in both Australia & France.
Thank you for that excellent ( if you donāt mind me saying so) summary of the tax situation pertaining to Aussies emigrating to France ( I Prefer in these days of Brexit to think of myself as more Aussie than British). From what I have read I think you are absolutely spot on in your comments and it is very helpful to be so reassured .
And yes, my wife Siobhan tells me that it was Olafās secretary ( or one of them) that moved on.
We have had a second home in France for probably 12 years, initially jointly with an old school friend of mine, in Luchon, and in the last 4 years in Languedoc at the "mysterious enclave of Rennes-les-bains in the Aude ! Increasingly prone to drought and floods, we find the climate more similar to Australia than UK and we love its rurality ( and for me particularly the wildlife photography opportunities there)
Your comments regarding investment opportunities are very pertinent and a general investment account may not be the most tax beneficial way forward in France. We have looked at Assurance vies but it seems to us that AVs dont really work well as an income stream for the first 8 years. Well something to work on!. Perhaps it helps that I am fast approaching retirement age and Siobhan is Irish !
Once again many thanks for your quick response, from the Warrumbungles National Park in NSW !
I just joined, so hopefully this āfirstā post is in the right place - I am an Aussie moving to France, after all, and my wife is Scottish.
Loving the site - still lots to read - hence why I joined.
After selling some land in Oz, we had enough to put a decent deposit on a house here - then get a mortgage
to pay off for the next 15-20years, or buy overseas and chill.
We purchased a village house in Olonzac last year, but not quite made the āpermanentā move yet. Love the hot summers and cool/mild winters of the region.
Iām retired (Navy pension/super), and my wife is still working. We flit over regularly, and I dare say will continue until she retires. As no doubt you know, if Iām here alone - even fully owning a house - Iām still a 90-day tourist.
It seems the biggest bugbear preventing people from buying overseas is the language barrier. They often ask can I speak French. āI know words, but canāt put a sentence together yet.ā Iāll get there,
Anyway, just sending out a āwaveā and keen to read about others planning, or have already done, the same thing.
Hi Everyone, I am just checking in to say hi and share what has been going on in our journey to move to France. it has been a while since I actually wrote anything in fact 2 yeas wow how that has flown.
I have been deep in business creation and operation here in Luxembourg. Not long after I wrote the post back in March 2018 my husband was made redundant in Luxembourg. And we went in to a holding pattern while we considered out options. For example selling up there and then and moving to France. Working out in greater detail how long and the possibilities to obtain an income stream through my husbandās pension here in Luxembourg.
The transition to retire options are very interesting and supported here in Luxembourg and for those of you who donāt know the pension scheme in Luxembourg it is very generous. We are two years down the track from that challenging period. We now have two incomes streams as we are mindful of the value of diversification particularly supported now with the pandemic.
So, that all shared we are back on track to purchase a property in France in the region Nouvelle Aquitaine Iāll keep you posted. It is an interesting exercise I think to share as we are in our early to mid 50s with multi income streams options. Luxembourg Pension, Australian Super for both, inheritance from Oz coming in the next 6-12 months.
I donāt have any European Citizenship however am a permanent resident in Luxembourg and I have my own a SME. I will transfer that business to France what ever form it ends up taking. My husband is German our daughter holds both German and Australian Citizenship.
Our intention is to purchase a turnkey/going concern in France to support diversification of income streams.
Ok all done for now! Enjoy your daysā¦lots to to and much quiet time to do it with the lock down n place
This is really just a quick hello. Iām new to the forum and new to France - Iām an Aussie who spent the last 5 years living in Sweden and have now escaped to France (Iāve been here 5 months) to be with my future wife. I am trying to work my way through everything from health cover to our move eventually (once the landlord gets nasty and decides to kick us out lol) from here (La Hauteville in Yvelines) to my future wifeās cottage in Brittany. Once we get the electricity on there and a few other things done I think we will be able to make it workable.
Iām not eligible for the Aussie pension yet but a few more years and I will be - Iām actually here on my Irish passport in the first instance because of course with Brexit my British passport doesnāt really mean much in the EU anymoreā¦
At any rate really glad I found this site and this forum - I have a feeling I am going to need it in the future
Welcome John - and I am sure there will be many others saying the same.
Not wanting to be any sort of Jeremiah, but I would get some clarification about your pension rights from Oz to here. I lost mine after paying in to the Oz system for almost 20 years. I only found out after retirement age, so better to check your situation whilst you have some time to do something about it locally.
still, ask away as you will be surprised at how knowledgeable people are about all things French!
Welcome John! Another Aussie here but no where near retiring, Iāve split living between here and home since I was 21!
My understanding of this is that you never loose your super, which has been compulsary for decades (not sure when you worked there Norman) as that is kept in your own super account. If you haventā worked in Oz within a few years of retiring (not sure of exact numbers) you arentā entitled to the state pension.
Superannuation was a optional extra, which at the time I didnāt take up, although my wife did when she worked with Glaxo. Curiously though, her Super just about covered the āchargesā made by the Insurance company so she never received a cent from it - although granted the capital sum wasnāt very big.
Oz did in fact keep moving the goalposts as Centrepoint personnel advised me over almost seven years, finally settling on 'if you donāt live here you donāt get a pension, and even if you did it would now be means tested - something viewed with horror in the '70ās!
I gave up and admit tohaving lost track now, but amassured the above is now true, plus the six month residency āat homeā still applies - as it does in New Zealand where my wifeās sister lives.
I suppose putting oneās trust in Governments to do the right thing is very old-fashioned but I have to say that the UK did give me a part-pension based on my first ten years of work in the UK (1956-66) for which I remain grateful. Hopefully Ian Duncan-Slime will not get his wish to deprive pensioners living outside the UK of theirs!
Hi Norman and all - I get the feeling I have a lot of things to work my way through but first things first - myself and my future wife are going to do the pax thing first before we get married - we are in the process of organizing all the paperwork and hopefully with that we can get me on the health cover here and so onā¦ I know I was able to pull out 10,000 AUD from my super recently because of that Covid 19 thing but Iāll be honest, having lived and worked all over I do NOT have very much super in Oz to begin with so if its at all possible when I get to retirement time I need to find a way to get the Aussie pension hereā¦
I can see there is no agreement between Oz and France so that is already not looking very goodā¦
Although I have worked in the UK for a while too (years ago) it was not for long and I am not sure I can even REMEMBER my national insurance number or whatever it was called back then - and although I was in Sweden for 5 years before this of course the āāpensionāā I have there is about enough for one month of living expensesā¦
At any rate - at least I am somewhere now online where I can touch base with people like myself - which is great
Johnā¦The current situation with regards to the Australian Age Pension is as follows:
You need to be resident in Australia at the time that you apply.
Or if you are in a country that has a Tax Treaty with Australia (most of western Europe except France & UK) you may apply in that country.
All pensions will be āmeans testedā
Once you have the Pension, it can generally become portable and you can then move to France and continue to receive it (subject in part to how many years that you worked in Australia)
If you obtain the pension in Australia, I think that you need to continue to reside there for 2 years before it becomes fully portable.
In other wordsā¦move to Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece & others and receive your pension first, then move to Franceā¦
Many many thanks for that Graham - it gives me an idea of what I am dealing with and what my approach will need to be a few years from now - Iāve got time - from memory its about another 10 years for me anyway - but definitely good to know and for me to be thinking about right now John.
John, if you have 10 years to goā¦I would hope that Australia & France might sign off on a Social Security Agreement by then. A group of us have been lobbying both the French & Australian governments to get on with it. Please feel free to lobby your local MP or even the PMā¦
Iāll get there,