IMO the Labour “strategy” of sitting on the fence and trying to be everything to everybody is doomed to failure. Brexit is a disaster, Johnson is a disaster and his cabinet is a disaster and sadly Starmer and his wishy washy shadow front bench is also a disaster.
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It’s odd that they should take that stance because there remain around half of the population think Brexit is a terrible idea and essentially have no political home.
The Tories want us all to “move on” from Brexit - so that we do not associate the damage to our country with this massive act of self harm prosecuted by “The Natural Party of Government”. It’s a bit like the chocolate ration in 1984, they want us to forget that things were better in the past so they can sell us some minor temporary (and frequently illusory) uplift as a major gain.
Labour are lost. They cling to the idea of the Northern Labour heartlands seemingly oblivious to the fact that hardly anyone goes down a mine any more and few work in a factory or a shipyard either. The “working class” these days are likely to be skilled workers in the motor industry and might not think of themselves as automatic Labour voters. They (the party) are terrified of losing the “Labour Leaver”'s vote - probably with good cause as there are few of them left.
I once worried that - post Brexit - if I did manage to retire to France, I would have no political voice as I would not even be able to vote in local elections.
I now don’t care about that - I’ve no <expletive deleted> political voice in this country and don’t see anyone pitching up to fight my corner either.
My son is an HGV driver in U.K….he has just quit his previous firm which was mostly quarry work and network rail and now delivers for Morrison’s
The new firm offered a bonus…better working hours…better contract…all time paid so no getting back to base and not being paid for washing the HGV down etc….
I don’t know how others get their HGV licence but my son self funded and in his own time….
(Just before “covid” he got a visa to work for a year as an HGV driver in the Northern Territories…his girlfriend was in China at the time…although all their travel plans came to nothing he’s relieved now that he didn’t get to Australia…)
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Here’s what people in the UK actually say:
Two thirds (67%) of voters believe the government has handled the crisis badly, according to a new Opinium poll for the Observer . Even a majority of Conservative voters (59%) thought that the government had responded badly. The majority (68%) said Brexit was partly to blame, including 88% of Remain voters and 52% of Leave voters.
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I think Starmer has been a disaster (actually I always thought he was weak and in a roundabout way bears some blame for the hard brexit we ended up with, as do all extreme-centrist-remainers). BUT I don’t blame him for keeping quiet about brexit now, because although (as my post above demonstrates) most UK people already know brexit was a mistake, they’re still fed up with talking about it, and afraid of the dark underside of social division it worked on.
But we’re only a few months down the line from it actually finally happening - and much of its impact has been disguised by the pandemic anyway. It’s absurd to expect much to change in the next few months or years - except the accumulation of evidence that it was a wrong turn, and increasing difficulties for the UK - which unfortunately will mainly affect the hard-pressed. But as environmentalists say about climate/ecological breakdown: nature doesn’t care whether you believe in it. In the end, reality will dawn.
I think it’s different if you’re that country’s national who has been left to sink in the mire because you lost your vote on a referendum of unimaginable stupidity and have been facing the consequences for the last several years. At that point, you’ve earnt the right to laugh when the Brexiters get egg all over their faces.
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For me, ‘schadenfreude’ doesn’t quite fit my feelings, because it generally implies a focus on other people’s difficulties, rather than their, or their country’s politics.
The terrible reality is that hard-pressed people in the UK will find - are finding - life even harder, and this will result in more unhappiness and a downward spiral of problems: disintegration of families, addictions, neglect of children in both homes and schools, painful waits for medical treatment, poorer care, etc. In the end, more illness and death. This has been the truth about ‘austerity’ in the UK for some time, and brexit is part of that.
But of course, if you were one of those that predicted negative results of brexit, there is also some satisfaction in seeing your views confirmed by events - and there’s the hope that others will eventually find the conclusion inescapable that voting Tory is a big mistake.
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Big difference between that and ‘gloating’ which certain members revel in despite the effect that Brexit will have on their own family and friends in the UK.
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Having watched as the British gutter press banged on about how rubbish the EU was for decades, often in the most infantile ways, this gentlemanly “oh gosh we lost, well better buck up and make the most of it” approach by Starmer is, IMO, pathetic. You don’t win battles by having the vapours and flapping your pearls.
For example, when Johnson announced tax increases to fund the NHS (disguised as social care) where were the headlines “Where’s the 350M Bojo?”. That’s how to win the hearts and minds of the idiots that voted leave, not mild articles about how jolly rotten it is. You can’t fight a vicious bully by waving your copy of the Guardian or New Statesman in his general direction, you have to thump him with them and keep thumping until the great unwashed who drool over the jingoistic Mail, Express and Telegraph little Britain articles wake up.
For example, why wasn’t there a front page Guardian headline saying “Johnson humiliates the UK with Kermit quote at the UN”? He, and the dick heads around him, get away with everything because nobody in the media is relentlessly and aggressively calling them out.
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I think we all have every right to say “I bleeding told you so” as often as we like to as many idiot “leavers” as we can find 
We suffered enough abuse as remoaners etc.
Look at this twaddle…
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You’re angrier about it than I am John. For me it’s more a feeling of resignation - due, I think, to the fact that I’ve seen it happening over 40 years.
A lot of people have false memories or impressions of the 70s. The common conflation somebody noted earlier in this thread between the ‘winter of discontent’ and the 3-day week, power cuts, etc, is very typical - a deliberately manufactured confusion propagated by the Tories’ tame media over decades (in fact the long crisis of the 3-day week was under Tory government, and the ‘winter of discontent’ was also largely media hysteria, hardly visible at all in real historical statistics - the ‘rubbish in the streets’ etc were in a very few places (other than tabloid headlines) - for most of us, life was good).
The truth is that the 70s were the happiest of all postwar decades - not my opinion (although it was my experience) but the conclusion of proper academic research.
Moreover, there was a moment in 1979, with the Bullock Report (which proposed industrial reform similar the German and Swedish Mitbestimmung system) when the UK could have been transformed into the kind of modern continental economy we all benefit from in the UK’s near-neighbour-countries. The election of Thatcher took the UK in precisely the opposite direction - low skill, low wage, short-termism - and total waste of the huge windfall of North Sea oil wealth.
I was active in the labour movement in the 80s and 90s, and there was of course a moment of hope in 1997 and a few years after - but in the end Labour failed to fully reverse Thatcherism, the 2008 financial crisis hit, and I watched the same Tory idiocy take hold again in the guise of austerity and brexit - precisely the opposite of what the UK really needed. This played a role in our decision to move our home and businesses to France in 2012 (along of course with lots of personal factors, and my enduring love of French culture).
I know people in the UK will continue to suffer bad government, and I’m truly sorry for it - probably like you I should be angry - but the resignation feeling is the stronger now.
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I liked the 1970s. I had a Raleigh Chopper, a Space Hopper and Mars bars were 5p.
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The problem is nothing nothing really seems to stick and those most affected by it didn’t necessarily vote for it.
But of course I will be delighted if the architects of the Brexit mess do get their comeuppance. Sadly I have my doubts.
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I agree with everything you’ve said there @almondbiscuit . I really feel for all those ordinary people who are not having a good time at the moment and for some they are having a very bad time indeed.
I too would like the leaders who knowingly dragged us all into this (and who have made profits etc as a result) to experience some sort of justice but I fear that, unless you believe in an afterlife, it is unlikely to happen…
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The biggest culprits like Cameron have become even wealthier.
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Thanks for the link Fleur. I always used to read Chris Grey on Fridays - and actually looked in last Friday to see what he was making of the current crisis in the UK, not realising he had changed to Sundays.
He’s great for reminding us of the relationship between the promises previously made by brexiters and what is actually happening. I was particularly struck by his reminder that they promised brexit would deliver lower prices - the reality being that the Bank of England is now projecting the rate of price increases will double, with even bigger hikes, as well as shortages, for crucial basics like energy and food.
Also an interesting point that Northern Ireland is actually less affected precisely because it is still in effect in the single market and customs union. It’s not going to take much for Joe Public to start asking why the rest of the UK didn’t stay in the customs union, and substantially in the single market (as Corbyn proposed at the time).
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He’s “off the air” until October, Friday is still his usual day.
I was 6 as we entered the 70s….I had a Raleigh chopper and a space hopper and my favourite over a Mars bar was an Aztec…yummy
My mum’s “kissing cousin” came over every Thursday night and took me and my little sis up the road to the nearest off licence…we came back loaded with aztecs and kp peanuts and fry’s dark chocolate mint….(and a half bottle of Bacardi….! My mom didn’t drink alcohol and my dad preferred a scotch whiskey on special occasions so I’m thinking that my much adored Scottish uncle kissing cousin to my mom probably drank most of it…
)
Dunno….but as an adult though I drink spirits very rarely my favourite spirit is still Bacardi 
We got to stay up late on Thursday nights so I adored my Scottish uncle (and all Scottish family) whatever 
(Friday night was chippy night)
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