All started with Arthur Balfour. It’s just an other place screwed up by the Empire.
Like accepting an invitation to a dinner party and expecting everyone to only talk about food.
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Jings. There’s revisionism and there’s this. It’s like blaming Poland for WWII because they didn’t put up more of a fight.
Straight on Zionist propaganda.
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What a load of nonsense, by that measure Germany should not be an independant state now after it started a war, lost it and became occupied, but not annexed, as you seem to think is ok.
Would you be happy then if now Germans were pushed out of their homes which were then bulldozed so that heavily armed French families could move in? Or perhaps you think they should all move east and disposess the Poles.
It is worth remembering, while you are slinging terrorism insults at patriots, that the Nazis occupying France called the French Resistance terrorists too, and treated them in much the same way as the Israelis do with their Palestinian hostages. (Yes, hostages, not all legally tried and convicted criminals).
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Palestine was under Ottoman Empire control long before the Brits snatched it during a revolt by the Palestinians against the Ottomans, I believe. Perhaps “subjugated” or “ruled” would be less emotive words than “conquered” that i chose. The point was that they were not self determining and i dont think the ruling classes, British or Ottoman, would have turned to the locals and said " we’re thinking about slicing the country up and giving the bottom half to the zionists. Do you chaps have any thoughts about this?"
I suspect Britain was more than happy to walk out of the region, leaving it to become Israel, when it was proposed by the United Nations
Thats the problem with history and arguments, people go back to a point that suits their issues. And the middle east changed hands many times with the Monguls as well and different factions are still arguing and fighting over issues thousands of years ago. They will never be resolved so neither will peace.
John, im saying that despite outnumbering the terrorist “army” massively, they choose to do nothing against them. They appear to be, at least, complicit and the early videos of the war would show, totally supportive, of all actions being undertaken against Israel. They appear to be a peoples army, not just an opportunist mob. As such how does Israel differentiate a fervent supporter from a soldier?
I think maybe we are seeing this from different perspectives. Your writing style to me is more humanitarian. I see this primarily as an ugly war and how is it fought most effectively.
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would say that Britain’s acquisition of the Palestine region in 1923 from the Ottoman Empire was perhaps a bit underhanded and would not have endeared them to the local population, but as I said before they were already a conquered territory. David your comparison with Germany carries no credibility for me. Germany was the instigator and upon defeat, those responsible paid the price of defeat. The country was divided, half ceased to exist as a free entity. The other half returned to European normality and the threat of Naziism disappeared. Germany “took it on the chin” and rebuilt itself. No missiles being launched at neighbours, nothing to cause alarm. A stark contrast with Palestine. Even their Arab neighbours apparently don’t want them as refugees.
David , maybe I see this as a different level of escalation, than you. I see Israel forced into a war, perhaps not of its choosing, but one its ready to fight. The videos of the Palestinians civilians killing Israelis at the beginning of the war, appeared, to me to show a civilan army, totally supporting the actions and beliefs of their leaders. This is nothing like any other modern day war. I believe, nothing like the behaviour of civilians in Nazi Germany, for example.
Furthermore any comparison to any other historical wars and outcomes seems irrelevant to me, in this instance. The Palestinians would seem to be fanatical from what I can see and read. I dont think the Israelis (or any other country that found itself in a similar situation), can do anything differently.
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Firstly, I am on record as being totally disapproving of any empires, British or otherwise so that complaint holds no truc with me. Whatever the British did it does not excuse Israel today, or any other day in the past, to treat the Palestinians as they do.
Secondly, the comparison with Germany is apt. It invaded, was resisted and ultimately defeated. That did not give the victors the right to annexe and settle their own populations on the loser. In the case of Israel it had a very specific instruction from the UN not to oppress in any way the existing population. It has consistantly ignored that condition for years and the resistance from the various Palestinian groups is a direct response to that illegal oppression.
Of course German civilians didn’t behave violently towards the victors after the war, they weren’t annexed and they weren’t dispossessed. How can you not see that simple fact?
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David, what about East Germany? That territory was annexed and was dispossessed, was it not? It took decades for Germany to reunite. I never learned much about East Germany in my youth, but I certainly dont remember any violence reported similar to Palestine… i suspect the Soviet tanks would have rolled in and suppressed it very quickly. The big difference to my mind is that the wartime and post war western German civilian population were (as best as I can determine) not involved in fighting against the allies, whereas the televised actions of the Palestinian civilians appears to show fanatical support of their leaders and army activity. How can you not see that simple fact?
The arab states around Israel are potentially as hostile as the Palestinians. As you say, Israel agreed to not repress the local Arabs and it has managed to broadly keep to that agreement for 70+ years. Massed rocket attacks and incursion into Israel, slaughtering the population is an act of war. Surely no one would argue otherwise. To me, its totally irrelevant whether the Palestinians feel oppressed, or not. The Israeli response has advisedly at least halved the Palestinian terrorist forces at the loss of 1.5% of the palestinian population. That equates to roughly 2 civilians for every terrorist. Given that the war has been city based and the terrorists have used civilians and the civilian infrastructure as cover, that sounds surprisingly efficient, to me. (Although it does grate with me talking about efficient killing ratios).
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East Germany wasn’t annexed, it was occupied, just as various sections of West Germany were but, when the 3 western zones were relieved of occupation (although foreign troops stayed on with the agreement of the West German government), West Germany became a fully independant state allied to its former western enemies in the face of the ‘new’ threat from Soviet Russia.
If you think that the bulk of East German citizens were happy with that situation I would direct your attention to the numerous dead, injured, tortured and imprisoned ones who tried to rebel and leave. If you don’t understand that, please tell me why a great big, 168 km long, wall was built to try and stop them.
The Arab states around Israel are realists, they know they cannot win against the USA armoured, bolstered and supported Israeli state which, not content with the land it has already appropriated, allows its own renegade citizens to destroy Palestinian homes outside of its official borders backed up with its army. Israel is a rogue state in every sense commanded by a war criminal and who in his own country is accused of corruption. He only stays out of court by his position as PM, a position he will lose if his war is ended. Thus more than 40,000 Palestinians, men, women and children, have been sacrificed on the altar of his guilt and corruption.
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Isreal had kept the Gaza population locked up as a concentration camp for fourteen; years. If you were locked up for that length of time wouldn’t you rejoice at, finally, a strike bqck against your oppressors. It"s like saying those in the Warsaw ghetto shouldn’t have rebelled. While I regret the loss of life on October 7th. it was total own goal for the Israeli Government, and Netanyahu knows that.
Is it not also macabre that a pop festival was taking place beside the Gaza ghetto? One life for Israelis and another for the untermensch in Gaza or the West Bank 
I don’t know what TV you’re watching, all I’ve seen since October 18th is displaced and dead Palestinians. Have you seen what the pimply, armed to the teeth little bastards in the IDF have done to over ten thousand children? Do you have children? How would you feel if your little kiddy was burned or maimed by some Israeli in a F15, who’s home in time for dinner with his mummy.
A bit of fecking outrage is required here.
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I “liked” a post on Facebook featuring a professionally produced film calling on the UN to act in defence of stricken civilians. No blame was apportioned, no state nor nation, no perpetrator nor victim was mentioned although the imagery left no doubt the middle east was the primary area of concern. For just liking that post, I received a handful of hateful and/or threatening posts. Everyone one of them came from an individual who didn’t hide the fact that they were aligned with Zionist groups from Dublin to the US to South America.
Whisper it. I think SF had been infiltrated. No names, no pack drill.
So killing children is a spreadsheet game? Plus, you have your numbers very, very wrong. I’ll assume you just got it wrong by accident 
I’ve reread your post and I’m quite cross now Unfortunately I’m travelling and only have my iPad and it’s virtual keyboard is a pain to tap upon, otherwise I would challenge your post point by point.
But lets cut to the chase, what’s your skin in the game? Why are you posting such ridicules things as “Israel agreed to not repress the local Arabs and it has managed to broadly (FFS) keep to that agreement for 70+ years.” or “To me, its totally irrelevant whether the Palestinians feel oppressed, or not.” or “The arab states around Israel are potentially as hostile as the Palestinians” etc.
They are too trite and they sound just like the formulaic lies the Israeli embassy droogs have churned out ad nauseum over the years.
I think you have an agenda so, come on, fess up… Is it Toxo or Toxic
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John, theres no need to be cross, topics like this are personal or general opinions hopefully built on facts. No opinion on here is going to improve nor even change the world. Im not selecting against Palestine and have no agenda. The facts and figures I have used are based on what i have read. This conversation thread could relate to any number of historical regions and peoples. Parts of Cambodia are now in Thailand. The Zulus live in Kwa Zulu Natal having displaced 5 other tribes who previously occupied. the region. But no one thinks those lands should be returned to the Soshangane people.
Yet the Palestinians have lost at least 4 wars and seem to be perpetual refugees expecting to be gifted lands they never nationally owned. They are not historically noteworthy and dont appear to have achieved anything useful. They effectively live on welfare, are ruled by an extremist group who seem to have, as their prime agenda, the destruction of all Israelis. I am not war mongering and im certainly not saying civilian casualties are desirable. I am saying however, that i find it hard to see anything good about these people who think its alright to attack their neighbouring country with rockets and suicide bombers. Israel could easily have carpet bombed them and killed millions , to ensure the death of 30 or 40000 terrorist troops. They haven’t. Now that would have been a war crime, in my view. I am left wondering what you think is an acceptable response for Israel to take or is your concern/argument purely humanitarian?
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Breathtaking logic, difficult to know where to begin but racism (they are not useful and have lost wars) is a start.
Has it occurred to you why they live on welfare, if they do, could it possibly be because they have had their livelihood taken away at the point of a gun or lighted torch? Do you not wonder why their activists are so violent? Could that be because, over 77 years, they have nowhere else to turn?
Have you looked at the destruction of property and life in Gaza and the resulting over 40,000 people, babies, children, wives mothers all of them according to you, terrorists? The Israelis have already committed what even you refer to as a war crime.
Wonder no more. An acceptable response would be the 2 state solution with already internationally recognised Palestinian lands becoming a state with borders adjoining the current state of Israel.
MAD in more than one sense.
Imagine any of us coming this close to suggesting the indiscriminate mass slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent Jews in Israel would ensure the elimination of BN and the IDF. Unacceptable.
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I agree, thats why i said Indiscriminately bombing 4 million people would be a war crime in my response to John. However, I also read that when the Israeli troops were advancing through areas that had been previously destroyed they were surprised at the number of civilian bodies (recorded as civilian casualties) found in close proximity to automatic and semi automatic weapons. Are some of these “civilian” casualties somewhat more than just civilians?
I’m sure it’s comforting to think that the civilians killed may have actually been terrorists too, especially the children and women.
I didn’t say they should carpet bomb, i said they could, if they had chosen to do so! My point is that their response has reportedly been targeted on militarily resistant positions and not indiscriminately. They have repeatedly demonstrated their ability to carry out very accurate strikes, destroying individual buildings. Whilst the total casualty numbers to date are undeniably high, they could easily have been much higher.